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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
Yes it is, you have the option at boot but actually if you select to not install Ubuntu you'll still be offered with a desktop icon to start the installation so the boot option is just for speed up purposes.


Ah, well Ibex and/or Jaunty (i forget which, but i think both) didn't have livedisk option.

Quote:
I mean the way the software is constructed, in Ubuntu is darn simple to install nVidia drivers, on Debian, unless finally changed, it is not so direct.


Depends on your card, but for the most part that's true.

>>I think I never asked for help in any of the communities, I always asked a friend or searched the solution on Internet so I can't tell how helpful them are but I'm aware them are no so much at times when your problem is actually a design flaw or bug that them fail to acknowledge just because OSS_is_flawless(tm). (Is really asking too much to add a stop button in Totem which is more natural to users instead of only a pause button that can't leave all people happy when you are playing a stream?).

Well that too. There's really three main reasons they won't help you. First reason is they don't have a clue how to help, which is excusable. Second reason is that they don't want to help, because you're not doing things the way they like, so they don't want to help (for example, i doubt you can convince anyone to help you install the adobe flash player for linux). Then the third reason is, if you say there's a problem with something, it's automatically the users' fault because the product is perfect. GCC is a great example. So are gnome and GTK. I don't even want to get started on GTK... There's so many design flaws and the like that shouldn't even have been to begin with. Their runtime type checking for example. Ever run a gtk program via the terminal and end up seeing something like this?:

Code:
** (gvim:20974): CRITICAL **: gtk_form_set_static_gravity: assertion `static_gravity_supported' failed

** (gvim:20974): CRITICAL **: gtk_form_set_static_gravity: assertion `static_gravity_supported' failed

** (gvim:20974): CRITICAL **: gtk_form_set_static_gravity: assertion `static_gravity_supported' failed

** (gvim:20974): CRITICAL **: gtk_form_set_static_gravity: assertion `static_gravity_supported' failed

** (gvim:20974): CRITICAL **: gtk_form_set_static_gravity: assertion `static_gravity_supported' failed
    


Quote:
Ya really. Unless you mean literally the one and only Linux kernel (which obviously can't be closed source).


Well, that IS what i intend to say, because i'm pretty sure that's what bitshifter was asking for. Honestly, i think if he wanted to try any UNIX based OS, he would've said that.

Quote:
No, you shut it. OSX is in the same family as the Linux kernel (UNIX-like). Go look it up if you don't believe me. I'm not sure what your problem with me is and quite frankly I don't care.


Don't make my mistake and take crap arguments personally (personal attacks are crap arguments, because it distracts attention to the real issue at hand). AFAIK, macs use ELF (or something similar), possibly the same syscall numbers, and AFAIK, linux can use just about any file system (hence why livedisks are one of the more popular features).
Post 01 Dec 2009, 19:05
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
kohlrak wrote:
Then the third reason is, if you say there's a problem with something, it's automatically the users' fault because the product is perfect. GCC is a great example. So are gnome and GTK. I don't even want to get started on GTK... There's so many design flaws and the like that shouldn't even have been to begin with. Their runtime type checking for example. Ever run a gtk program via the terminal and end up seeing something like this?

There are places to ask for help like forums or chatrooms. Depending on the project and the service you're using you may get very good replies or you may just start flame/holy wars with people who don't really have a clue.

And then, there are places where you report bugs like bugzilla and other bugtracker/PR systems or mailing lists.

If you want to contact developers who know how things work and may take a look at the problem, use the right tool.
Post 01 Dec 2009, 20:40
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Just for reference, in case the stop button thing I commented looked like a discussion extracted from a random forum:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344255 (2006)
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/18075/ (2009, just to confirm the Totem developers' tight convictions).
Post 01 Dec 2009, 22:02
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
There are places to ask for help like forums or chatrooms. Depending on the project and the service you're using you may get very good replies or you may just start flame/holy wars with people who don't really have a clue.


If you're in the right room and you have a genuine problem, no one says anything at all.

Quote:
And then, there are places where you report bugs like bugzilla and other bugtracker/PR systems or mailing lists.


The most recent problem required me to look into the config files for gnome-power-manager, but i couldn't find them. TBH, i could've probably checked the package for a clue where it's at, but still. You'd think people in #gnome would have an idea. It might've been the program itself too, as IMO, 60% battery power isn't critically low, especially when it doesn't decide to shut down until you plug the power cord in.

Quote:
If you want to contact developers who know how things work and may take a look at the problem, use the right tool.


I just got ticked off enough that i decided it would be best to just switch programs because it would be too much trouble in the long run anyway, at least the kde equivalent is stable.
Post 02 Dec 2009, 00:28
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mattst88



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 260
Location: South Carolina
mattst88
Azu wrote:
mattst88 wrote:
Azu: do us a favor and shut it. You're wrong and even acknowledge this fact.
No, you shut it. OSX is in the same family as the Linux kernel (UNIX-like). Go look it up if you don't believe me. I'm not sure what your problem with me is and quite frankly I don't care.


It's as simple as this: Linux isn't OS X. You claimed it was. See below if you can't remember.

Quote:
Ya really. Unless you mean literally the one and only Linux kernel


Maybe it's just an issue of semantics (really, you not knowing them) but no one uses the word Linux to refer to UNIX-like operating systems. That's kind of why we have the phrase UNIX-like to begin with.

As to my problem with you: you come off as an unapologetic know-it-all who quite often actually knows nothing (See current discussion). Maybe you can demonstrate otherwise.

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Post 02 Dec 2009, 05:26
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
As to my problem with you: you come off as an unapologetic know-it-all who quite often actually knows nothing (See current discussion). Maybe you can demonstrate otherwise.


As if you have any room to talk...
Post 02 Dec 2009, 06:20
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Adelaide
sinsi
Quote:
Right now i have about 10 PC's and want to give each a different OS.
OK then try 10 different ones...



An Australian band called Skyhooks had a song in the 70's called 'Ego is not a dirty word". Of course, that was before the internet forum.
Post 02 Dec 2009, 06:31
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
An Australian band called Skyhooks had a song in the 70's called 'Ego is not a dirty word". Of course, that was before the internet forum.


I wonder if they'd sing it again if they met my girlfriend's mother... Laughing
Post 02 Dec 2009, 07:02
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
The best solution then is to just drop these programs. The mastodons GNOME & al. don't work for you? Don't use them. It's as simple as that. Use something else. Actually I wouldn't even use DEs. They're bloated and don't really give you any advantage over "a set" you've built yourself. That's why I use BSD. When it comes to third-party applications, it's completely naked and I have to dress it myself. Very Happy


About the MacOS/Linux/UNIX "polemic": software may be called differently depending on its characteristics, its compliance with one standard or another and whether it's linked to AT&T (i.e. if it's Genetic UNIX, like *BSD).
MacOS is actually one of the *very few* to be certified UNIX. What can you do? They have $.
Post 02 Dec 2009, 09:38
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1159
Azu
kohlrak wrote:
Don't make my mistake and take crap arguments personally (personal attacks are crap arguments, because it distracts attention to the real issue at hand).
You're right. I'll try to ignore them from now on and only respond to logical arguments.

mattst88 wrote:
Azu wrote:
mattst88 wrote:
Azu: do us a favor and shut it. You're wrong and even acknowledge this fact.
No, you shut it. OSX is in the same family as the Linux kernel (UNIX-like). Go look it up if you don't believe me. I'm not sure what your problem with me is and quite frankly I don't care.


It's as simple as this: Linux isn't OS X. You claimed it was. See below if you can't remember.
No, I claimed it's the closest thing you're going to get to a closed source Linux, since obviously Linux itself is open source and something can't be open source and closed source at the same time, so I mentioned something in the same family of OSs.

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Post 02 Dec 2009, 13:47
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mattst88



Joined: 12 May 2006
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mattst88
Then clearly you see that what you said was totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, and you had no reason to argue with multiple people over it.
Post 02 Dec 2009, 14:46
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mattst88



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 260
Location: South Carolina
mattst88
kohlrak wrote:
Quote:
As to my problem with you: you come off as an unapologetic know-it-all who quite often actually knows nothing (See current discussion). Maybe you can demonstrate otherwise.


As if you have any room to talk...


Didn't you leave or something?

Yeah, I remember it. It was nice.

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Post 02 Dec 2009, 14:47
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Azu
Kind of hard to ignore when he keeps pestering me though.
Post 02 Dec 2009, 15:44
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cod3b453



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 619
cod3b453
I'd say give openSuSE a try and, if you include BSDs, FreeBSD - I think both have net installs so you can minimise you're bandwidth use.

(Red Hat, Debian and Fedora also seem to be popular Linux distros if you want to expand your list)
Post 02 Dec 2009, 16:08
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
mattst88 wrote:
Maybe it's just an issue of semantics (really, you not knowing them) but no one uses the word Linux to refer to UNIX-like operating systems. That's kind of why we have the phrase UNIX-like to begin with.
I thought the word was *nix, not unix-like Confused

and guys please, drop personal insults, not worth it. Now you know what Azu meant, and Azu knows what you meant, no need to further kill over it.

mattst88 wrote:
Didn't you leave or something?

Yeah, I remember it. It was nice.
that was just rude man. How does that make you different than him?

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Post 02 Dec 2009, 19:05
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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ManOfSteel
Borsuc wrote:
I thought the word was *nix, not unix-like Confused

*nix = Unix-like. *nix just makes it easier to "get around" possible legal issues, since UNIX(r) is a registered trademark.

Borsuc wrote:
and guys please, drop personal insults, not worth it.

Makes threads more fun to read. Twisted Evil
Post 02 Dec 2009, 19:46
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
ManOfSteel wrote:
Borsuc wrote:
I thought the word was *nix, not unix-like Confused

*nix = Unix-like. *nix just makes it easier to "get around" possible legal issues, since UNIX(r) is a registered trademark.


It's also easier to use.

Quote:
Borsuc wrote:
and guys please, drop personal insults, not worth it.

Makes threads more fun to read. Twisted Evil


Even fun to write in. Laughing Though as said, if a thread is actually serious (like this one), it distracts people from the facts and the real debate.
Post 02 Dec 2009, 22:02
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rCX



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 166
Location: Maryland, USA
rCX
Like others have stated. Try Ubuntu.
Post 02 Dec 2009, 23:59
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
crunchbang linux (based on ubuntu also), you wouldn't regret.!!
Post 09 Dec 2009, 23:10
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