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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
YONG wrote:
Borsuc, you have just opened my eyes by saying "Science is NOT a truth-seeking discipline!" I'm shocked!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked
Is it a religion to you?

Science is precise, it is has a clear form, and it is measurable, and subject to experiments that test models and hypotheses. Those that pass the tests become theories. How many of these does "truth" hold? That's right. None.

Hmm if you are so inclined, show me the "measure" of the current truth we hold. A device that can measure truth on a scale, for instance. If such thing exists and, obviously, explains why it works the way it does, then it's science.

Until then, "truth" is left for philosophers, science is left to people who actually use it to predict phenomena. Who work with it. A tool, if you will.

Truth is for romantics, science is for engineers.

Wink


Or let me ask you something else. Was Newton wrong? Surely it may seem that way by now, but his models were perfectly valid for his experiments. He wasn't seeking truth, you see, and anyone who claimed that his models were truth was wrong.

The point is, if YOU think that it is "current truth" and later "truth changes", then you aren't talking about truth at all, sorry. Truth, by definition, cannot change, is one and only one. The Earth can be flat one day and regard it as 'truth' and later, when you do more observations, come to the conclusion that it's round.

Which one is truth? What if we discover something else later?

If you stick to truth, then science would have to NEVER change. There is some other "field" that does this. It's called religion. Go figure. Wink

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Post 19 Nov 2009, 17:08
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

The point is, if YOU think that it is "current truth" and later "truth changes", then you aren't talking about truth at all, sorry. Truth, by definition, cannot change, is one and only one. The Earth can be flat one day and regard it as 'truth' and later, when you do more observations, come to the conclusion that it's round.


even if current truth changes in the future time, it is still truth in one of the moment inside past.

let say you are filling water from taps into a bottle.
a moment ago it weights 0 liter, then you open the water taps, water flows in, start increasing from 0 to 1 liter.

now if somebody asks you during the process of filling in water, what is the weight of that bottle? how you gonna answer?
Post 19 Nov 2009, 22:48
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
sleepsleep, I'm talking about the absolute truth as in "rules of the Universe" (hope you get what I mean).

For example, how do you know we are not in the Matrix? You can't, and science doesn't deal with these unmeasurable things... those are left for philosophy or religions.

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Post 19 Nov 2009, 23:18
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
hmm,m, how is that your absolute truth as in "rules of the Universe" different from the truth about the weight of that bottle?
i dont' get it.

Quote:

For example, how do you know we are not in the Matrix? You can't, and science doesn't deal with these unmeasurable things... those are left for philosophy or religions.

we are in matrix. we are not vieweing the real thing for sure.
that is already explained when science discover how our eyes actually works. everybody "red/blue/green" color could be different from eyes to eyes but we still call it red, because each tiime we see that color, our teacher told us, it is red. in fact, i suppose, this is why some people preffer particular color, and some other preffer another.

and possibly, they all are choosing the same color but different name. (just i guess so, not science)
Post 20 Nov 2009, 04:34
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i somehow thought about this in the late evening.
and i discover something.

truth will change if let say we started it with an incomplete question.

so, question like are we in matrix (is lack of more detail)
when, when are we in matrix? now, during our lifetime? death and so on. maybe truth said there would be a moment when we are not in the matrix.

so, question like the weight of the bottle is incomplete.
it should states when. otherwise truth would be a variable instead of constant.
Post 20 Nov 2009, 11:57
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Truth - lol

Funny thing is - if enough people believe in it - it becomes truth...
wether it can be proved or not.. Laughing


if enough believe
we are in a matrix
it becomes truth

Thats why most religous people speak the truth - and dont use the word Fact..
Post 20 Nov 2009, 20:18
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