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windwakr



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
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windwakr
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17980

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Quote:

An electromagnetic "black hole" that sucks in surrounding light has been built for the first time.

The device, which works at microwave frequencies, may soon be extended to trap visible light, leading to an entirely new way of harvesting solar energy to generate electricity.

A theoretical design for a table-top black hole to trap light was proposed in a paper published earlier this year by Evgenii Narimanov and Alexander Kildishev of Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana. Their idea was to mimic the properties of a cosmological black hole, whose intense gravity bends the surrounding space-time, causing any nearby matter or radiation to follow the warped space-time and spiral inwards.

Narimanov and Kildishev reasoned that it should be possible to build a device that makes light curve inwards towards its centre in a similar way. They calculated that this could be done by a cylindrical structure consisting of a central core surrounded by a shell of concentric rings.


They expect to have one working in the visible spectrum by the end of 2009.

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Post 15 Oct 2009, 19:04
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Remy Vincent



Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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Remy Vincent
Sure they aren't able to synchronyze hundreds of ... with 256 bit assembler coding ...

We need to be able to get out of this planet as fast as possible ...
Post 15 Oct 2009, 21:32
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
Remy Vincent wrote:
Sure they aren't able to synchronyze hundreds of ... with 256 bit assembler coding ...

We need to be able to get out of this planet as fast as possible ...
Question

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Post 15 Oct 2009, 21:34
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Oh, you mean it is a big mirror that reflects lights into the centre. Sounds like standard stuff that has been done for centuries. I don't think it is playing fair to call it a black hole. I think the name is just to attract media attention. Perhaps more appropriately it can be called a light collector, or light concentrator.
Post 16 Oct 2009, 01:47
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
Well it will look kinda like a black hole once it's on, since light will never reflect off it. Razz

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Post 17 Oct 2009, 14:03
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r22



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
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r22
Instead of expensive concave mirrors we can use EVEN MORE expensive intricately etched exotic meta-materials to concentrate light for solar energy.

This is a very cool invention and seems to be advancing science (optics, refraction, meta-materials), but I think this is more hype than practicality.
Post 17 Oct 2009, 22:30
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
Would even a real black hole be practical for reasons other than military use?
Post 18 Oct 2009, 03:22
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r22



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r22
An artificially created "real black hole" ...
- create vast amounts of energy if you could get it to spin a turbine.
- could be used to remove nuclear waste from our "dimension?, plane of existance?"
- could improve our scientific knowledge by being able to test many aspects of theoretical physics.
- destroy the planet/solar system if it starts growing exponentially.
Post 18 Oct 2009, 03:31
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
  • either radiates vast amount of dangerous energy due to the accretion disc, or simply vanishes in an explosion merely giving back the energy that you used to make it.
  • impossible to hold in one fixed place on Earth for practical use or study.
Post 18 Oct 2009, 04:54
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
Quote:
create vast amounts of energy if you could get it to spin a turbine.


Getting it to spin the turbine wouldn't be the problem... It would be keeping it from tearing it apart and/or sucking the energy from the conductor.

Quote:
could be used to remove nuclear waste from our "dimension?, plane of existence?"


So we pollute another plane of existence, only to find out that it somehow affects us just like when we thought we could simply remove waste by throwing it in the water supplies.

Quote:
could improve our scientific knowledge by being able to test many aspects of theoretical physics.


Supposing that we have anything to truely learn from it. Perhaps our inability to create one is due to the fact we don't understand it. If we understood it, would we need to study it? Truth is, i think actually creating one proves a specific physics theory more than testing with the creation would. The lack of ability when other things can do it much easier (the universe [or gods if you believe in them]) proves our lack of knowledge/lack of being correct. If we understand a black hole, we can create one. If we don't understand it, we can't create one, unless we do it purely by accident. I doubt we'll make one on accident without regretting it...

Quote:
destroy the planet/solar system if it starts growing exponentially.


Why should we want to do that? Plus, that would be a military operations.

Quote:
either radiates vast amount of dangerous energy due to the accretion disc, or simply vanishes in an explosion merely giving back the energy that you used to make it.


Minus some entropy of course, since we won't know how to harness all of the energy we got back. Though, isn't the idea of a black hole that it sucks energy anyway? Sounds to me like it's merely the lack of energy, so it would absorb nearby energy/matter until it's entirely canceled out.

Quote:
impossible to hold in one fixed place on Earth for practical use or study.


Chances are, if what people think of black holes is true, it'd hold us in a fixed place. Laughing
Post 18 Oct 2009, 06:22
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
Where would you get that energy? Even if you converted the whole Earth into energy (using an anti-earth planet) that would not be enough. You need an object the size of three Suns to have enough gravity for a Black Hole -- remember, matter is energy. Razz (and matter has "mass")

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Post 18 Oct 2009, 18:27
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bitRAKE



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bitRAKE
Just for the sake of discussion we might assume that naturally occurring black holes are not the only type possible, but are merely the result of the conditions present in the universe. A more detailed understanding of black holes might allow for the creation of unnatural conditions leading to a black hole. We could speculate similarly about anything though.

There are actual examples of such theoretical discussions resulting in progress, so I am hopeful to have a black hole on my desk to throw trash into one day. I can already hear me yelling at the children, "why did you put that in black hole!?", or "stop teasing Timmy that you're going to put him in the black hole." Smile

Maybe, it is the small-scale understanding of gravity which leads to small black holes? Or, the grand unification which allows other forces to be used instead of gravity to create a black hole?

Initially, it does sound dangerous, but I'm assuming once the small black hole consumed the device which created the special local environment (allowing the black hole to exist) that the black hole would cease to be. Of course, maybe an implosion or explosion would take place in this situation; but I don't imagine it being earth shattering. Nor anything as deadly as a persistent black hole in our back yard.

{Similarly, I think it'd be awesome to have a small nuclear reactor.}
Post 18 Oct 2009, 20:23
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
Nothing beats having programmable nanobots that can manipulate atoms in any way you want, even converting air to gold if you want Razz

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Post 18 Oct 2009, 20:24
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r22



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r22
Quote:

Quote:
could be used to remove nuclear waste from our "dimension?, plane of existence?"


So we pollute another plane of existence, only to find out that it somehow affects us just like when we thought we could simply remove waste by throwing it in the water supplies.


Best 2 ways to solve nuclear waste issue.
1 - Send it into a black hole (REQUIRES: a black hole, polluting another reality will have zero ill effects on us I guarantee it)
2 - Send it into the Sun (REQUIRES: a space elevator, because launching it with conventional rockets is too costly and dangerous)

Every neighborhood should have a safe mini nuclear reactor. We just need to make sure they are far enough apart from each other, so if one does explode it doesn't start a chain reaction.
Post 19 Oct 2009, 17:13
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
r22 wrote:
polluting another reality will have zero ill effects on us I guarantee it)
so selfish... P

anyway, that's not a good idea. That gets rid of matter altogether which is not a good idea at all.

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Post 19 Oct 2009, 18:21
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r22



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r22
Borsuc wrote:
r22 wrote:
polluting another reality will have zero ill effects on us I guarantee it)
so selfish... P

anyway, that's not a good idea. That gets rid of matter altogether which is not a good idea at all.

Fawning over alternate realities/universes that MAY or MAY NOT exist and that MAY or MAY NOT have life is ILLOGICAL. My black hole nuclear dumping campaign just needs a catchy tag line like "drill baby drill"!
Post 19 Oct 2009, 20:10
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
r22 wrote:
Fawning over alternate realities/universes that MAY or MAY NOT exist and that MAY or MAY NOT have life is ILLOGICAL.
Are you joking? If anything, future prediction is what makes humans different than some data-collecting machine. Humans have "safety standards", machines only count the times disasters happen, humans PREVENT them because they are SMART and think of "what-ifs" in advance.

You know, "what does this red button do?" type of foolishness. How do you test that? The smart way, that is, looking at the circuitry behind it, or the STUPID way, that is, fucking PUSH IT and launch a nuke?

And besides, even if alternate realities don't exist, it's still bad to throw it in a blackhole, for the same reason that it's like getting rid of energy -- who is a fool to do that? Why not be smart and find a way to use the waste in some way, or put it somewhere else in case you, I dunno, NEED IT LATER? Rolling Eyes

r22 wrote:
My black hole nuclear dumping campaign just needs a catchy tag line like "drill baby drill"!
I don't expect much opposition, after all, most of your audience also thinks that matter can be created out of thin air. Rolling Eyes

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Post 19 Oct 2009, 20:33
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
Quote:
1 - Send it into a black hole (REQUIRES: a black hole, polluting another reality will have zero ill effects on us I guarantee it)


So we send our problems to some one else? What if we end up finding a way to safely travel and want to explore that reigion? What if aliens exist and we tick them off sending them our garbage? That'd be as bad as others from another existance sending us their garbage. Assuming there is another reality. Moreso, how could we ever account for the loss of matter in our own universe? What if we end up learning how to use that "waste" just as we learned how to use waste from oil to make plastics and rubbers?

Quote:
2 - Send it into the Sun (REQUIRES: a space elevator, because launching it with conventional rockets is too costly and dangerous)


That's even dangerous in itself.

Quote:
very neighborhood should have a safe mini nuclear reactor. We just need to make sure they are far enough apart from each other, so if one does explode it doesn't start a chain reaction.


Actually, i doubt a chain reaction or explosion is what we have to worry about. Usually it's some one being negligent and failing to properly run the equipment and causes an emergency release of radiation (see three mile island).

Quote:
Are you joking? If anything, future prediction is what makes humans different than some data-collecting machine. Humans have "safety standards", machines only count the times disasters happen, humans PREVENT them because they are SMART and think of "what-ifs" in advance.


History has proven otherwise many, many times.

Quote:
I don't expect much opposition, after all, most of your audience also thinks that matter can be created out of thin air.


Thin air is matter. Wink
Post 20 Oct 2009, 00:25
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