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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
of course french is a latin language.

accents are there to help in pronouciation, without accents, how can you make the difference between:
marché & marche (market & walk)
Post 05 Oct 2009, 10:04
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
spivak pronouns represent an attempt to compensate for the fundamental problem of native speakers, who cringe upon hearing "he", instead of "she", i.e. gender distinctions, whether in conversation, or in writing.

Of course, good languages, PuTongHua comes to mind, don't make such distinctions:

He, she, it, they are all "ta"

Rather convenient, in my opinion. Certainly MUCH easier to understand, MUCH easier to learn, than English.

Unfortunately, Chinese has those bloody accents. They are a killer, for non-native speakers.

edfed wrote:

accents are there to help in pronouciation, without accents, how can you make the difference between:
marché & marche (market & walk)
Umm. where to begin? This could be a long discussion.

French, a rather beautiful language, in my opinion, is TERRIBLY difficult to learn. It is also very difficult to pronounce correctly. German is far simpler to pronounce, and to understand, precisely because of the very close correlation between what is written, and what is spoken.

In the case of marche(1) and marche(4) (employing PinYin accents in honor of my hero, Zhou En Lai, whose formative years in Paris led him to champion the development of PinYin), one observes two words containing different phonemes, written with the same Roman letters, INCORRECTLY.

There is an EXTRA phoneme on marche(4), and rather than employ another Roman letter, the French, stupidly in my opinion, decided to, instead, stick in a small stick, rising, as if to suggest a louder pronunciation. However, it is not the intensity of the sound, which changes with marche(4), but rather, the insertion of an additional phoneme. Thus, sadly, we are presented with a brilliant example, by edfed, of precisely why French is so terribly difficult:

NO CORRESPONDENCE between the pronunciation and the orthography.

English is a mongrel gemisch of those two, German and French, with a bit of Latin, Greek, Celtic, Spanish and Danish thrown in to the mix.

Spanish, is undoubtedly the easiest language to learn, and to speak, though, why the entire Spanish world confounds 'B' and 'V'
is a great mystery to me.....no other language, that I know, is confused by these two phonemes, only the Spanish.

Thus, we are left with Italian, as both the most beautiful, and one of the easier languages to learn.

Russian is probably the most beautiful of the terribly difficult languages, in my opinion.

Smile
Post 05 Oct 2009, 10:30
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
tom tobias wrote:
Spanish, is undoubtedly the easiest language to learn, and to speak, though, why the entire Spanish world confounds 'B' and 'V'
is a great mystery to me.....no other language, that I know, is confused by these two phonemes, only the Spanish.
If I remember properly, such situation also exists in Greek language (maybe it's a remain of the older, non-Indo-European languages spoken in the Mediterranean Sea region in the far past). Wink

Yes, Russian is really beautiful from the phonetic point of view but unfortunately has improbably horrible grammar. Wink However, I think that Polish language is more difficult due to its irregularity. Wink
Post 05 Oct 2009, 10:43
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ass0



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 521
Location: ( . Y . )
ass0
wtf again,

In Spanish we do difference between vaca and buey pronunciations.

V is dentilabial
B is labial

And the relation between Russian spelling and pronunciation is easier than in English:

У is pronounced OO as in good.
Универсальный = Universal.

But U is pronounced differently in English words: Umbrella, Business, University, and so on.

The Russian letters 'в and б' are kinda the Spanish 'v and b'.
Post 05 Oct 2009, 11:11
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
ass0 wrote:
In Spanish we do difference between vaca and buey pronunciations.

V is dentilabial
B is labial
I will not contend with a Spanish native speaker about it but isn't true that Spanish has different features depending on the country where it's used?
ass0 wrote:
The Russian letters 'в and б' are kinda the Spanish 'v and b'.
Wtf, again? Wink

We know that Russian alphabet is derived from Greek one (with some additional symbols from other oriental writing systems) but it has nothing to do here with Spanish. It would be better if you mention here ambiguity between Russian 'в' ('v') and 'г' ('g'), because in some cases 'г' is pronounced like 'в'. Wink
Post 05 Oct 2009, 11:29
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ass0



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 521
Location: ( . Y . )
ass0
Spanish is not the exception as every language has dialects, for example:

In certain zones of Central-America they don't pronounce the 'R', instead they pronounce 'L':

Instead of 'comer' they say 'comel'.
Instead of 'terminal' they say 'telminal', and so on.

In Argentina most of the peeps (LocoDelAssembly maybe is one of them xD) pronounce 'LL' and 'Y' as 'SH', examples:

(Tip: Spanish speakers pronounce the 'a' like English speakers pronounce the first 'a' in 'ahead').

Llave (key) Argentinians say 'SHAVE'.
Yema (egg yolk) Argentinians say 'SHEMA'.

The 'traditional' pronunciation of 'Y' is like English speakers say 'yes' or 'yup'.
The 'traditional' pronunciation of 'LL' is pretty hard to explain but it would be something like 'ly', 'lyave', or it could be like 'million'.

Quote:

It would be better if you mention here ambiguity between Russian 'в' ('v') and 'г' ('g'), because in some cases 'г' is pronounced like 'в'.


его = his

That's the only 'issue' I know about it, those letters must finish the word and then 'г' is pronounced like 'в'.
Post 05 Oct 2009, 12:28
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
Thank you for the explanations about Spanish dialects. Smile
ass0 wrote:
those letters must finish the word and then 'г' is pronounced like 'в'.
Not exactly: let's take as an example a word 'сегодня' (= 'today'), where letter 'г' isn't placed in the last syllable of the word. Of course, you can here split this word into two components 'сего' (genitive of 'this') and 'дня' (genitive of 'day') to prove your assumption. Anyway, for more examples of such words you can ask native Russian speakers. Wink


BTW, is it true that in some Latino-American countries pronoun 'yo' ('I') is pronounced like English 'jo' (I heard something like that in the one of the Chilean TV series Wink)?
Post 05 Oct 2009, 12:47
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ass0



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 521
Location: ( . Y . )
ass0
Quote:

BTW, is it true that in some Latino-American countries pronoun 'yo' ('I') is pronounced like English 'jo' (I heard something like that in the one of the Chilean TV series Wink)?


It's part of the Argentinian dialect that influences a bit in Uruguay and Paraguay. I.E.

Callate! (Shut up!) Argentinians pronounce 'Cashate!' or 'Cajate!' (as you say in English spelling) or better spelled in Russian: 'кашатэ!' or 'кажатэ!'.

So you could hear in Argentina:

Yo (I): 'шо' or 'жо'
Lluvia (rain): 'шувя' or 'жувя', and so on.
(But in Mexico and Andean countries they pronounce like: 'йо' and 'лйувя').

The explanation is that most of Argentinians are descendants of Italians and they inherited the accent and customs.

A common joke in Latin-America about Argentinians: 'Los argentinos son italianos que parecen franceses pero quieren ser ingleses' (The Argentinians are Italians that seem French but they want to be British) I don't know the origin but I presume it was before the 'Falklands War' (La guerra de las Malvinas como los 'hermanos latinoamericanos' lo recordamos).

Well LocoDelAssembly could explain this better than me =D.
Post 05 Oct 2009, 14:21
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
ass0 wrote:
So you could hear in Argentina:

Yo (I): 'шо' or 'жо'
Lluvia (rain): 'шувя' or 'жувя', and so on.
(But in Mexico and Andean countries they pronounce like: 'йо' and 'лйувя').
Use of the Russian alphabet for explanations of the Spanish dialects pronunciation is a really interesting idea and better catches all subtleties than English phonetic transcription. Wink
ass0 wrote:

The explanation is that most of Argentinians are descendants of Italians and they inherited the accent and customs.
Amazing, I didn't realize that (I thought that there should be more Spanish descendants). Smile
Post 05 Oct 2009, 14:53
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
edfed wrote:
accents are there to help in pronouciation, without accents, how can you make the difference between:
marché & marche (market & walk)
simple, use two different words instead of nearly the same. Wink
(like english market & walk, which are different)

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Post 05 Oct 2009, 15:05
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bitshifter



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Massachusetts, USA
bitshifter
edfed wrote:
french is more elaborated language than english, that"s why american speak english, they don't have the brain for a real language.

But what if i am French-American?
I am so confused...Confused
The French in me want to get drunk and make love...
The Irish in me wants to get drunk and fight...
What am i to do?
Maybe i will just get drunk and punch code...
LOL

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you just have to keep focused and take it one 'byte' at a time.
Post 05 Oct 2009, 18:21
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