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Does Intel need to invest more into x86 documentation?
Yes
80%
 80%  [ 8 ]
No
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 10

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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2914
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
I suggested Intel have a contest to fix errors in their manuals.

Quote:
Can you have a contest to fix the errors in the Intel-64 and IA-32 Software Developers Manual? Coders continually tell me of the poor quality this once great resource has evolved into. It seems the merger of Intel-64 material introduced confusion while removing the consistent tone.

Please, invest some resources into this issue.

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Post 02 Aug 2009, 03:59
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windwakr



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 827
Location: Michigan, USA
windwakr
The manuals are fine as they are for me. I don't think they are in "poor quality". What kind of errors are in them?
Post 02 Aug 2009, 04:14
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2914
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
Yeah, "poor quality" is a little extreme. Smile

There are a few threads on the board where errors have been discussed:

http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=9420

(...more to be found...)
Post 02 Aug 2009, 04:25
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
I've commented in this forum some typos, one of them in some string instruction that the seg:reg pair was contradicting the previously mentioned (which was the correct).

Them are still a recommended read, but them certainly need some fixing...
Post 02 Aug 2009, 05:16
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MazeGen



Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 975
Location: Czechoslovakia
MazeGen
Good idea, bitRAKE. I'll vote/comment when I'm on my work computer.

BTW, I gave a try to that awkward form (it's 404 now, hope the link still works):
Quote:
url: http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/manual/253667.pdf

REP prefix

Count register description is wrong

Page 338 says: "... In 64-bit mode, if default operation size is 32 bits, the count register becomes RCX when a REX.W prefix is used."

Page 339 says:

"... ELSE IF AddressSize = 64 and REX.W used
THEN Use RCX for CountReg; FI;"

This is wrong. The size of the counter depends only on address size; REX.W has no effect on the counter size.


A robot responded immediately:
Quote:
Thank you for contacting Intel Corporation. This is an acknowledgement that we have received your e-mail and will respond to your inquiry as soon as possible. If you haven't already done so, you may wish to visit our technical support web site at http://support.intel.com and our corporate web site at http://www.intel.com for any product, service or company information that may be of value to you.
Again, thank you for your interest in Intel.

A representative of Intel may subsequently contact you in order to obtain your feedback on the quality of the support you received. By taking the survey you are helping us to improve our support services. Participation in the survey is strictly voluntary. The email invitation to the survey will include instructions for opting out of future customer support surveys.
...

A human responed few days later:
Quote:

Hello Karel,

Thank you for contacting Intel Developer Center.

We appreciate you taking the time to report this information, as it helps us to improve and maintain a quality Web site.

I have forwarded the issue you reported to the content owner of this Web page.

Best regards,

Hal G.
Intel Developer Center
Home Page: http://developer.intel.com/
Site Feedback and Product Assistance: http://developer.intel.com/design/sitehelp/
...

with a copy of my report. We'll see if the "content owner" will respond as well.
Post 02 Aug 2009, 07:15
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asmcoder



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 784
asmcoder
[content deleted]


Last edited by asmcoder on 14 Aug 2009, 14:47; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Aug 2009, 19:07
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MazeGen



Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 975
Location: Czechoslovakia
MazeGen
asmcoder wrote:
auhshauhahuah
and whos retarded?

Who? You are retarded.
Post 02 Aug 2009, 19:14
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2914
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
Language is funny. I've spoke with non-English speaking people which try to communicate with English, and every other word is some type of vulgarity. Without patience and respect for those that are trying to communicate the meaning can remain lost.

The same goes for business - some companies are so large that the pieces become unaware of each other, or where communication should even be directed. It doesn't appear to be an easy process to get changes made to the Intel manuals.
Post 03 Aug 2009, 00:54
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
Intel is known for not reacting Smile
http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2007/08/30/are-you-ready-for-sse4/
soon-to-be 2 years old.

Leave a comment - why? Very Happy
Post 03 Aug 2009, 08:53
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
Their manuals are filled with illiteracy and obscurity, but they are extremely slow/unresponsive to errors that people find and report to them for free.. even if you provide the solution to them completely for free (i.e. tell them exactly what it should say instead) they won't even apply it! I doubt they will fix anything any time soon. They should, but don't need or want to.

I wish they'd at least do something about all the damn 404 errors, though.
Post 03 Aug 2009, 12:15
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
First of all, it is absolutely not clear where to report problems in their manuals. I reported something by same form that mazegen linked (it was linked by Intel guy in one thread at their developer forum), and experienced same "reponse" (lack of it). It might be a good idea to invest something in this. Come on, they pay all those money for free hardcopies and abroad shipping, but they can't hire one fucking guy to clean up the text?
Post 03 Aug 2009, 13:15
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windwakr



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 827
Location: Michigan, USA
windwakr
Is it just me, or is IDIV not correctly documented in the docs?


Operand size: Quadword/doubleword
Dividend: EDX:EAX
Divisor: r/m32
Quotient:EAX
Remainder: EDX
Quotient Range: -2^31 to 2^32 - 1


-2^31=-2147483648
2^32-1=4294967295
So in the range of -2^31 to 2^32-1 there are 6442450943 numbers. How does that fit in EAX?
Shouldn't it be "-2^31 to 2^31-1"?

Same error in the "Doublequadword/quadword" part too.


I guess the docs may be in slightly "poor quality" after all.

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Post 04 Sep 2009, 20:06
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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Location: Estonia
Madis731
Type'os in descriptive text also, one that vid showed me @FASMCON, others that I've found dealing with IPI-s. Full of it Smile That's why we need additional resources (read: links to pages of other people) to decipher them.

Sigh...
Post 04 Sep 2009, 20:32
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
Typo of typos? Laughing

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Post 05 Sep 2009, 00:04
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
windwakr wrote:
Quotient Range: -2^31 to 2^32 - 1
Also in the description:
253666-028 - September 2008 wrote:
IF (temp > 7FFFFFFFFFFFH) or (temp < 8000000000000000H)
(* If a positive result is greater than 7FFFFFFFFFFFH or a negative result is less than 8000000000000000H *)
MY docs are 1 year old, so maybe the latest versions fix that, maybe not.
Post 05 Sep 2009, 01:02
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
November 2008, still the same and the copy-paste continues (IDIV):
Code:
Quadword/doubleword EDX:EAX r/m32 EAX EDX -2^31 to 2^32 - 1
Doublequadword/quadword RDX:RAX r/m64 RAX RDX -2^63 to 2^64 - 1
    
Post 05 Sep 2009, 09:50
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
Are you sure it is bug? I seem to remember Tomasz saying something about result being same for usnigned and signed > 7FFFFFFF.
Post 05 Sep 2009, 11:13
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17278
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
vid: imul will give the same result for signed/unsigned in the lower half of the result. idiv does not.
Post 05 Sep 2009, 11:21
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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Madis731
Even if it were true, they would not document the range being crippled like that Razz
Post 07 Sep 2009, 09:33
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
Why not? >:/

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Post 07 Sep 2009, 12:09
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