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iic2



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 123
iic2
Kind of lonely down there in UNIX but I am having a ball but now I got a major problem and these 44 questions should be here under main, I think. I been jogging a mile a minute for the pass few months and still not sure what's really going on or how to play it.

Is the hype about AMD64 really worth it as far as running a dedicated FreeBSD gateway server? I mean an Internet Web Server running many interactive web applications for common web suffer. Minimum hits topping 2 million per day. I read back in the 90's where Win95 could served up to one million static web pages so this shouldn't be a big deal with today technologies, but I'm no expert. Its only a dream of any Web Programmers/Designers so that is the number expected where one must write for the maximum possibilities.

Sure, eventually, but only after I wrote every possible thing for AMD64 in FASM rather than Perl and understand the working of UNIX from top to bottom and on my own machine at home than I rent what it takes to get the job done at all cost from people that house those monster machines... I rather rent because my girlfriend need love too and you know coding period will tie you down and cause neglect for love ones. So I rather be at the park or beach with her and my Black Berry.

I do this/I ask this for practice, days before I make the attempt a 64 bit AMD machine. Can I buy any old cheap AMD64 machine and that the code I write for it will work on any version of AMD64 processor just like when I write on INTEL Pentium 2 which work on all Pentium to date? If so, I found one and will buy it ... It will only be a practice/development machine.

I am more worried about the transition from INTEL to AMD64 because tomorrow 128bit or even Quantum my pop up turning all efforts into out-dated munch, over night. As far as Intel64 it can still deal with my 32bit Windows coding which I am very comfortable with it. I feel that knowing INTEL 32bit asm it will not be much of a problem for any ASM coders to understand 64 coding once a decent amount of examples has been presented for any platform. So as far as running Windows I have no plan to go outside of INTEL. As far as FreeBSD as an server running any possible ASM applications that I can write ... if I must rack my brain and accept being non-portable as is, to boot, I think I rather try AMD64.

All I wrote above has at lease 15 questions if you read between the lines i guest. I would happy to read responses to anything in relation to this subject, including your personal thought and links about moving to 64 bit even a part time habit, but I have no intentest in Linux but I am not turning any information down. But this is more about Windows and FreeBSD only. Mostly FreeBSD.

This is what has sold me:
http://www.thejemreport.com/content/view/74/74/

Now I must have your stamp of approval or I'll drop it in a flash.
Post 14 Jun 2009, 05:06
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
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LocoDelAssembly
Quote:

Can I buy any old cheap AMD64 machine and that the code I write for it will work on any version of AMD64 processor just like when I write on INTEL Pentium 2 which work on all Pentium to date?

So far, yes. Even more, the code you write for AMD64 should work with Intel Core 2 Duo and up too (some Pentium4 are also compatible). You must be careful about SSE3 however, my processor that now is old supports it but a little bit older Athlons 64 supported up to SSE2.

In the case of wanting compatibility with Intel64 you must no use 3DNow!
Post 14 Jun 2009, 05:24
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17664
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revolution
For most practical purposes AMD64 == x86-64 == IA64. No difference on the programming side unless you are doing the OS kernel from scratch.

Quantum won't be happening any time soon, don't worry about that. 128bit also won't be happening any time soon, also don't worry about that.

However on the hardware side I have read that the Core2 is lower power and faster speed than the AMDs. It might cost a little more upfront but will likely save in the long term on power bills.
Post 14 Jun 2009, 05:30
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Adelaide
sinsi
Intel had to follow AMD as far as 64-bit goes, didn't they?

>For most practical purposes AMD64 == x86-64 == IA64
Surely IA64 is totally different to any x86-based CPU?
Post 14 Jun 2009, 05:57
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17664
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revolution
sinsi wrote:
Surely IA64 is totally different to any x86-based CPU?
Just checking if anyone is actually reading the nonsense I post.
sinsi wrote:
Intel had to follow AMD as far as 64-bit goes, didn't they?
I guess one could say that. It is also arguable that Intel followed AMD with the onchip memory controller. So what about SSE5 vs AVX, I think Intel will win that one.
Post 14 Jun 2009, 08:34
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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sinsi
>Just checking if anyone is actually reading the nonsense I post.
I read every bit of nonsense you post...
Post 14 Jun 2009, 09:04
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
sinsi wrote:
I read every bit of nonsense you post...
Oh, I hope you are getting professional help to aid your recovery after reading. Twisted Evil
Post 14 Jun 2009, 12:43
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
revolution wrote:
Quantum won't be happening any time soon, don't worry about that.
Quantum are different AFAIK, not even digital but more analog-like and super fast... they also destroy the data once computation is done (the nature of quantum mechanics).

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Post 15 Jun 2009, 01:50
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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Madis731
If your comparing anything with Pentium 4 then I suggest: "take something else!". Heck even Pentium III is better clock-for-clock. But when it comes to newer AMD's then Core 2 is definitely better on average performance. When it comes to price, I guess it depends on country's policy. Some Eastern-European countries tax Core 2 very much higher.
Post 15 Jun 2009, 06:16
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iic2



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 123
iic2
Quote:
So far, yes. Even more, the code you write for AMD64 should work with Intel Core 2 Duo and up too (some Pentium4 are also compatible). You must be careful about SSE3 however, my processor that now is old supports it but a little bit older Athlons 64 supported up to SSE2.

In the case of wanting compatibility with Intel64 you must no use 3DNow!

So all I need is the practice machine for learning/building/testing 64bit FASM under FreeBSD. Windows would be more than a THRILL but I'll worry about that after I'm done, hopefully by 2010

I think Athlon is AMD version of Pentium Centrino = = emulation to the un-known. So this would be cheating and is no longer included. hee hee

First of all, skip how un-fair life is. You can't really dish-out 64bit like it's a piece of cake unless I can do the slicing too.. I only use general registers and maybe FPU, MMX. But the machine must have at lease SSE2. Do today's processors come with build-in control panel or do we have to write our own? In this case, I would find that switch that slows things down. I will turn-it-off or replace it with my fasm-module to run my fasm-code so it out-run or meet the rest, visa, syscall, respectfully.

The word is Pentium3 - 1700 will out-run a Thirty two hundred. The link is here somewhere. First guest: it's what coding in ASM has to offer. Back in the late 90's I read where anything out-side of general processor registers would be dependent on code to run it. MMX and SSE got to be included; So just like Windows, I say give me at lease DOS or I would not run it on that kind of machine, period. So that is SSE2 in my mind ... if I need those few extra clocks to speed things up, I'll turn sh*t off or build a simpler module in my spare time, if possible.

Anyway, this got me on track... now I know where to start: = = bottom to top of 64bit capable machines ... as long I DON'T screw up, while working from examples, then getting to cockey ... you did mean, i can simply order a seat for my 64bit fasm generated file on the wing of any one of these 64bit- JETS Smile Who could ask for more!

I will end up with both. But for now, if I had the extra bucks I would get Core 2 .. and then AMD64. But I see that AMD can switch-to-run 32bit code *all build-in*. It's a hard call though. Anyway, warp-speed or not, it good to know that standard 64bit code rides. These days businesses is breaking all common since type rules that even many Foundations has in place. Who would play that?

Quote:
Quantum are different AFAIK, not even digital but more analog-like and super fast... they also destroy the data once computation is done (the nature of quantum mechanics).

You mean they turn on switch #1 and it actually did something? That is going to be a nice read!

Quote:
If your comparing anything with Pentium 4 then I suggest: "take something else!". Heck even Pentium III is better clock-for-clock. But when it comes to newer AMD's then Core 2 is definitely better on average performance. When it comes to price, I guess it depends on country's policy. Some Eastern-European countries tax Core 2 very much higher.

That's what I'm saying. But today's price is not the issue here but it be great to grab a short list of most relevant. Now the price is $300 max, NEW! $240 for emulators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit -- since 1961

Only thing I read is UNIX. I just notice this:

http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=10268
Post 16 Jun 2009, 23:50
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
iic2 wrote:
You mean they turn on switch #1 and it actually did something? That is going to be a nice read!
I think I read some time ago that they managed with 4 qubits to do a worthless computation for testing.
sorry no links Sad

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Post 17 Jun 2009, 23:01
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
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LocoDelAssembly
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor%27s_algorithm , a test with 7qubits was performed at IBM.
Post 17 Jun 2009, 23:38
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iic2



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 123
iic2
Borsuc, Wow ... I must be seeing things ... "Explanation of the algorithm" while doing the math. This stuff looks and sounds just like pure ASM scratched out on the palm of the hand. I barely made it into college last year cause of my poor math skills and I avoided taking Algebra or next, to-date. I be da*m if I don't sign-up for some kind of math next semester.

That is a keeper LocoDelAssembly I'm lost for words. We -- Thank you

Which of these would you choose as your 64 bit FreeBSD 100% interactive Web server running many web applications with FASM apps in control . By next year I will have a production server up and running. I will be renting from a provider because by then i rather spend more time with my chick so I don't plan to make any mistake. Just like a dictionary I have no need to upgrade the site very much after written. Than I can go back to my Windows coding. I like to know your thought about the Phenom also. Please.

Some may ask; why I don't you just rent today, it's cheaper ? Cause I rather know what I'm doing first. There is nothing worse than seeing your painting on TV a day before presentation and above all, I simply enjoy doing all I can in one or two languages, and to move into another agriculture that FASM has been ready for all the time ... is THRILLING. I bet it be one of the first to be Quantum Ready, if at all possible. I can't stop talking, I am too excited. All with big memory and more. Here they are:
under $500.00 big time

Intel Pentium Dual-Core Desktop Processor E5200
Processor Speed: 2.5 GHz
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAY7

ATHLON X2 6000 DUAL CORE
Processor Speed: 3 GHz
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_13041,00.html

AMD Phenomâ„¢ X4 Quad-Core 9150e
Processor Speed: 1.8GHz
http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=448&f1=&f2=&f3=&f4=&f5=&f6=&f7=&f8=&f9=&f10
Post 18 Jun 2009, 16:46
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
I don't know the prices there, but here I can get an excellent Intel Q9550 Quad Core 2.8 Ghz at about 300$. I'm actually planning to get it for my desktop.

It also has 12 MB cache!
Post 18 Jun 2009, 20:53
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iic2



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 123
iic2
[That no credit to the first true 64bit invented by AMD. Life is so un-fair. Oh, i said it Sad Intel is winning so far but I still think AMD serve best as an 64bit practice machine to stay in tack with true 64-bit agriculture. Thanks for Q9550 I now chop my list down to:

Intel Q9550 Quad Core
Processor Speed: 2.8 Ghz
About $500.00 easy here with all the goodies


AMD Phenom X4 Quad-Core 9150e
Processor Speed: 1.8GH
About $500.00 easy here with all the goodies

I only got 15 minutes to decide. My ride is coming... P L E A S E. I am shock that I may end up with an super 64bit Quad Core something unless the salesman pull up a boss AMD66 something.

Thanks
Post 18 Jun 2009, 21:54
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
The Intel by far, not sure why the AMD Phenom is so expensive there, here it's like half the price for some reason. It's also heating faster, and is built on 65nm process (more energy wasted per power) than 45nm Intel Q9550.

They haven't even get to 32nm yet (but plan to, I mean Intel) so you can also be sure you'll get the latest fabrication process for now Very Happy
Post 18 Jun 2009, 22:04
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iic2



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 123
iic2
All of my favorite corner shops only had Intel XEON so I had to hit the Super Shop and I choose custom build over e-machine. I blew it. I did not provide complete details but I am still very very happy. Seven c-notes ... It's now or never. No more beer and back to coffee until the next Super-Boul.

AMD Phenom II X4 -2.6Ghz -TRUE - 6.0mb total-Cache; AM3
BI-STAR - TA790GX A3+ mother board with TV tuner - 4 slot mem
2 sticks - Viper - DDR3 4 gig ram
Seagate Sata-Barracuda 500 GB/Go
.. and a nice case


We forgot CD and Floppy drive. It was my fault, screaming RAW ... RAW system ...raw. I only blew the chance to see 64 bit Windows at work, but, this is for 64-bit FreeBSD only.

Never pay for a system that don't have at lease a floppy drive installed.. I really forgot and I did not want to interrupt that great salesmen at work. There is nothing worse to me than forgetting that. Sorry Sad

Borsuc, hope we can compare notes. Soon I will find or build all needed tools to test anything under the sun at BSD-64 level.

Mission Near-Accomplish

Thanks
Post 20 Jun 2009, 07:10
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windwakr



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 827
Location: Michigan, USA
windwakr
Why not build your own? Probably would've been cheaper.
Post 20 Jun 2009, 15:20
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iic2



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 123
iic2
For starters, I did not know what I was really looking for. I could have saved $150 - $200.00 or more if I had more time but sometimes you just want to get it over with and move on to the fun part. Besides it's to late for me to cry over spill milk. I have tons of spare parts here at home. I was just embrassed not to include a new floppy. I'm going to love this machine Smile
Post 20 Jun 2009, 18:42
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Get a USB floppy and USB optical drive. Much more convenient.
Post 21 Jun 2009, 00:22
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