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Index > Heap > future society ~ moneyless

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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Alphonso
sleepsleep wrote:
ok, so now assume a moneyless society must also has some kinda control towards the population.
I think the problem is we are not ready for a money less society or more basically an uncontrolled society.

revolution wrote:
The person has the choice
Hey, this brings back memories of the Matrix. Very Happy

How will this person live, how will they buy food? Sure, they have an option or choice but you must take into account the consequences of saying no.

Accept the money and do task X or don't accept the money and have no money to feed your family. Is that really a choice?
Post 13 Dec 2009, 18:33
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
profit is THE problem.

they looks so cool with their money.
evebody dreams (lobotomy) to be a rich man like those who pollute our planet with white gloves and champagne.

i prefer to live like a rat than to be like these sons of bitches.

i understand now why profit was forbiden to catholics.
Post 13 Dec 2009, 18:34
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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
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Tyler
Alphonso wrote:

How will this person live, how will they buy food?

There was a time before money, they could just grow the food themselves. Not that I think that's a good thing, the whole reason we're not cavemen anymore, is because we have time to accomplish more than feeding ourselves.
edfed wrote:

profit is THE problem. ....
i understand now why profit was forbiden to catholics.

What does profit have to do with money? I agree profit can be be a bad thing, but if you decide to move to Africa and trade cows you could do that for a profit too. Money isn't what causes the problem, the people that want all of it are.
Post 13 Dec 2009, 20:42
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
what money can do:

build schools, invent new technologies, feed (with food) people, pay people for the job they do, insure you are the owner of your house.

what profit can do:

ERIKA, rain forest destruction, economical crisis, debt, and ferrari to shine in society.
Post 13 Dec 2009, 22:57
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
edfed wrote:
what money can do:

build schools, invent new technologies, feed (with food) people, pay people for the job they do, insure you are the owner of your house.
People do that, not money Wink

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Post 13 Dec 2009, 23:50
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ass0



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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ass0
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Post 14 Dec 2009, 02:08
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r22



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 805
r22
ass0 makes a good point, you can't have a moneyless society without free FOOD and SHELTER.

Since SCARCITY is the foundation for barter; FOOD and SHELTER will need to be ubiquitous.

The other problem is MAINTAINING this moneyless society. People need motivation; artists and scientists may be self motivated to continue their work, but what about the guy that cleans the valves on the ~proton reactor or the mechanics that service the robots that grow all the food...


Industrialization was supposed to give people more free time, we should find out why that concept broke down.
Post 17 Dec 2009, 08:26
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
Quote:

ass0 makes a good point, you can't have a moneyless society without free FOOD and SHELTER.

yeah, so, we must provide free food and shelter in case we want to move into golden age money-less society. but who would provide those essential necessities?
unless our robotic technology evolves into really deep and more human-like, they know how to grow food and provide to us after processing them, but somehow i think this is too much of fantasy.

my main concern is actually, money-less society couldn't exists if we got too much people who are greedy. greedy = those who want more than him/her self could consume.
Post 17 Dec 2009, 09:05
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
Th Star Trek programmes were intended to show a society where money has been eliminated. But the authors never showed how it really worked. Basic motivations are never explored. And even things like rewards for extra effort are never shown. What rewards can you give people anyway? Extra food? A hearty "thanks" from the boss?

Extra food (or other supplies) doesn't work else the food becomes a de-facto form of money. Similar to the cigarettes in prisons, things given as rewards would become the "money" of the society.

I find it very difficult to believe that a simple "good work" comment from the captain/leader/boss is enough to motivate people to always try their best and to never be lazy or selfish.
Post 17 Dec 2009, 09:08
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
i think a money less society can use motivation as a money.

it is very simple.
instead to have a job you don't like, you do what you want.
but realluy what you want.

for exemple:
i want to cook verygood food, but i am not a chef in a restaurant, then, i cannot do that, even i can do that easy (very good food is simple to do, as easy as very bad food) and then, i will have a free meal, because i cook for free.
after, in the same day, i feel motivated to repair a thing on the street, but i don't have a tool,i will ask for a tool at the first toolery, he will give ti to me, i will repair the public thing in the street. return the tool, and continue my way.
afte, i am at home, i feel motivated to garden a little, i do that, after, i go out, i want to draw from the window of the last stair of a building, i will do my drawing, and nobody will tell me to go.
etc etc.

motivation society.
sometimes, people feelmotivated to do something, and sometimes not.
it depend what is your freedom.
Post 17 Dec 2009, 18:09
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
edfed wrote:
i think a money less society can use motivation as a money.

Exactly, and people are motivated when they passionately love what they're doing. If people hate what they're doing, they won't really be motivated and they'll do it just because they *have* to do it or they starve. And sometimes they do it and still starve. Hmm.
Post 17 Dec 2009, 20:02
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
So if we let people just do only what they love to do then who cleans the toilets at McDonalds?
Post 18 Dec 2009, 00:41
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
Motivation only works when people are honest and not selfish -- we could achieve that with genetic engineering in the future (~Star Trek Laughing).

Yeah you would have to do unpleasant work, but it has to be done. It would work as "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" type of society ('you' being plural/society). Laughing

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Post 18 Dec 2009, 00:46
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
i never eat at mec danoldz
Post 18 Dec 2009, 17:53
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
maybe no matter how, we wouldn't have a utopia society.
so, if we couldn't do it on earth, how they gonna fix it on heaven?
assume, there are abundance on heaven, but still, those who go there would probably want something more and demand more from (so called) god.

i assume & believe human doesn't automatically change themselves even after they are dead.
if (s)he is greedy, selfish now, he would be like that also even after his/her death.
Post 19 Dec 2009, 05:02
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
sleepsleep: How can you be greedy/selfish/anything after death? With death comes lack of movement, lack of thoughts, lack of conscience, lack of desires, etc. If you think there is something else after death then you have to prove that first before you can argue about remaining personality traits during such situations.

As for having a Utopia society, I completely agree, you cannot achieve it for all. You may be able to have a Utopian like existence for a few (privileged) people but not for everyone. Societies don't work that way (unfortunately).
Post 19 Dec 2009, 05:16
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
sleepsleep wrote:
if (s)he is greedy, selfish now, he would be like that also even after his/her death.
With regards to religion, that's right. It's why Hell is eternal for those who are selfish when they die and haven't changed until then and asked for forgiveness (honestly). Razz

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Post 19 Dec 2009, 16:34
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1159
Azu
sleepsleep wrote:
Quote:

ass0 makes a good point, you can't have a moneyless society without free FOOD and SHELTER.

yeah, so, we must provide free food and shelter in case we want to move into golden age money-less society. but who would provide those essential necessities?
unless our robotic technology evolves into really deep and more human-like, they know how to grow food and provide to us after processing them, but somehow i think this is too much of fantasy.

my main concern is actually, money-less society couldn't exists if we got too much people who are greedy. greedy = those who want more than him/her self could consume.
Ya. There's no way a machine could possibly manufacture food. That's going to remain pure sci-fi forever.


revolution wrote:
So if we let people just do only what they love to do then who cleans the toilets at McDonalds?

Exactly.
There's definitely no way something so complex could ever be automated.
Human labor is an absolute necessity.

Only crazy people think machines could some day do manual labor like digging holes in the ground and cleaning!

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Post 22 Dec 2009, 04:19
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
the hardest part, how to deal with freeloader.

some of the great discussion were held here.
http://anthologyoi.com/blogish/beyond-the-socialist-dream-a-money-less-society-part-i.html
Post 21 Jun 2010, 00:45
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score_under



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 27
score_under
Borsuc wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
if (s)he is greedy, selfish now, he would be like that also even after his/her death.
With regards to religion, that's right. It's why Hell is eternal for those who are selfish when they die and haven't changed until then and asked for forgiveness (honestly). Razz

If selfishness can be changed:
Why is hell forever?

If selfishness cannot be changed:
Why is somebody, naturally selfish, subjected to this? Why can't they just not be born?
Post 21 Jun 2010, 18:25
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