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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
yeah, i always wondering this too.
does time ever exists?

from what i knew, it just a tool to measure event. full stop.
so, wisdom of the old people, using something that everybody could view (eg. planets, sun or moon), check their rotation and mark it as cycle.

so, we human create time as a tool, it just something that never existed, illusion tool that human tried to create.
Post 08 May 2009, 12:12
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
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HyperVista
sorry sleepsleep, i don't have time to address this question today .... Laughing
Post 08 May 2009, 12:39
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
hahaha, u just use the illusion tool to address my question Razz
Post 08 May 2009, 12:47
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
I will answer tomorrow.
Post 08 May 2009, 12:48
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Coddy41



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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Coddy41
Didn't Albert Einstein make this theory or close to? From my opinion, time does egsist and to ask our-selfs
questions like this is a waist of what little we actually have, we have time but, we are given little of it
here on earth, one day, your time here will run out, as well as mine, and, we will no longer ask our-selfs these
questions.
Post 08 May 2009, 13:17
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
Time is one of the fundamental ideas and attempt to explain it could be considered as very "dangerous" due to the possibility of creation an infinite loop of the definitions. Wink

Accordingly to some philosophical theories (St. Augustine) time is inseparable joined with movement (i.e. change of placement in the space). We can observe time flow by changes in our environment. Absolute invariant world is a dead world.

In completely unchangeable world word 'time' loses any sense: eternal existence meets lack of existence.
Post 08 May 2009, 13:35
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Coddy41



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Coddy41
If I understood that right, my post above meets the same line?
Post 08 May 2009, 15:43
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MHajduk



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MHajduk
If we are talking about very fundamental questions then it seems that modern science and ancient philosophy give very similar answers. This is, for sure, extraordinary astonishing for every who consider science as quite opposite to religion/philosophy.
Post 08 May 2009, 16:30
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
MHajduk wrote:
Accordingly to some philosophical theories (St. Augustine) time is inseparable joined with movement (i.e. change of placement in the space). We can observe time flow by changes in our environment. Absolute invariant world is a dead world.
I agree with Augustine (and not just about time mind you Razz). In my opinion the reason we see things happen 'in time' is because things actually MOVE in that time. It is hard to explain because it is unintuitive at least to Newtonian people (those who think of the world in term of Newtonian Mechanics instead of relativity).

Light itself "moves" and is the criteria for passing information. It moves with a finite speed. I think it is because of the finite speed that we see stuff happening in "time", or rather, because information isn't moving instantly.

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Post 08 May 2009, 21:15
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Tomasz Grysztar
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Tomasz Grysztar
MHajduk wrote:
This is, for sure, extraordinary astonishing for every who consider science as quite opposite to religion/philosophy.
Science opposite to philosophy? I would rather say that philosophy is a base for any science.
Post 08 May 2009, 21:33
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Quote:
I would rather say that philosophy is a base for any science.

But only some philosophies (positivism etc.). Other philosophies (like subjectivism) would be very hard to base science due to their basic tenets. Also some philosophies presuppose things that could conflict with science (Logos), etc...

So people who prefer those other philosophies may easily find science to be opposite to their philosophy.
Post 09 May 2009, 11:58
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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bitRAKE
How could there be a space without time? ...without movement?
Post 09 May 2009, 15:19
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Tomasz Grysztar
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Tomasz Grysztar
vid wrote:
So people who prefer those other philosophies may easily find science to be opposite to their philosophy.

Yeah, but I thought rather about an academic approach to philosophy - that you actually learn about all the philosophies, including the philosophy of science. My feeling is, philosophers should be actually the most open-minded people, open for thinking about all the possibilities.
Post 09 May 2009, 19:59
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
bitRAKE wrote:
How could there be a space without time? ...without movement?
Space without time is easy. Imagine a still world, still data, or just an image for example. Time without space is impossible though.

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Post 09 May 2009, 21:16
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asmcoder



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asmcoder
[content deleted]


Last edited by asmcoder on 14 Aug 2009, 14:51; edited 1 time in total
Post 09 May 2009, 21:31
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pal



Joined: 26 Aug 2008
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pal
Time itself is just a measure of the sequence of events (wiki), I agree with this completely. Time itself has to exist, or something which is synonymous with it for much of what we know to be true (but when much of what we know is based on educated assumptions).

If someone had labelled time differently, e.g. one day = 48 hours, do you think we would be awake all that time (e.g. 16 hours sleep, 32 hours awake) or what?
Post 09 May 2009, 21:54
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
I agree with Augustine if what he means is like below:

time is moving because if time is not having changes, it couldn't be uses as "an illusionary tool" to provide answer regarding "when".

time is inseparable joined with movement because time itself is changing, althought everything (space) is still, time will still change (second to another second), and that create changes/movement.

i understood the idea that propose "time/when" is not required when there are no changes. but time doesn't have the "power" to create movement/changes except to "time" itself.

imo, they are 2 totally different issues that i failed to understand why people want to mix them into one.

space is real, but time is illusionary tool.

changes will still occurred but nobody know how to describe "when" if time doesn't exists.

Quote:

if you need it let it exist.

i let it exists as a illusionary tool to provide answer regarding "when". Smile

Quote:

Time without space

time is illusionary, so it doesn't need space to exists.
Post 09 May 2009, 22:14
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:
Time is one of the fundamental ideas and attempt to explain it could be considered as very "dangerous" due to the possibility of creation an infinite loop of the definitions

hmm, can you give me more clue ... i don't understand what is the infinite loop of the definitions". and why "dangerous"?
Post 09 May 2009, 22:18
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
sleepsleep wrote:
time is inseparable joined with movement because time itself is changing, althought everything (space) is still, time will still change (second to another second), and that create changes/movement.

i understood the idea that propose "time/when" is not required when there are no changes. but time doesn't have the "power" to create movement/changes except to "time" itself.

imo, they are 2 totally different issues that i failed to understand why people want to mix them into one.

space is real, but time is illusionary tool.

changes will still occurred but nobody know how to describe "when" if time doesn't exists.
Well you are kind of right on spot with relativity, except that replace 'change' with 'movement' and you have it Wink

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Post 09 May 2009, 23:39
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
sleepsleep wrote:
hmm, can you give me more clue ... i don't understand what is the infinite loop of the definitions". and why "dangerous"?
Time Travel into the past: you go and kill yourself. But then, you won't travel back in time anymore to kill yourself (you're already dead). But if you don't, then you won't kill yourself, so you're still alive. Hence you are either alive or dead at the same time, travel back in time and not travel at the same time, or simply are in an infinite loop like this:

- go back in time to kill yourself
- you're dead, but then, you don't travel back in time (no one does) so you won't be dead anymore (no one kills you)
- so you build the time machine
- repeat at first step infinitely

INFINITE LOOP Laughing

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Post 09 May 2009, 23:41
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