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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Post 17 Apr 2009, 09:24
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asmcoder



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asmcoder
[content deleted]


Last edited by asmcoder on 14 Aug 2009, 14:52; edited 1 time in total
Post 17 Apr 2009, 11:02
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Enko



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Enko
Quote:

A Swedish court jailed Gottfrid Svartholm Warg, Peter Sunde, Fredrik Neij and Carl Lundstrom for a year each for running and funding The Pirate Bay


Quote:

The guilty verdict will now raise questions about whether the likes of Google and YouTube can be held accountable for content downloaded illegally by their users.
Google has a stated policy that says anyone can ask them to remove copyright-protected material.

Yes, but if you search some crack, keygen on google, there are million of results, no one can ask them to remove all the "ilegal" contente that anyone can find.
I think that the Judges in this case, had a poor sence of justies.
Post 17 Apr 2009, 15:02
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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Madis731
Its simple: TPB is small and they can intimidate, GOOG is a major thing in the world and it cannot be touched although it made some really bad bloopers like "taking pictures of persons' faces and their houses" or "picturing some secret areas on Google Maps/Earth" etc. TPB shows merely a link to a .torrent and now they're automatically evil Razz

Microsoft is evil because it ties IE to its OS Smile

PS. A little correction, they didn't lose (yet?), because it is said that they will continue with higher courts...
Post 17 Apr 2009, 16:08
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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bitRAKE
There is no doubt in my mind that it will be overturned (or severely reduced sentence) in a higher court. Although the idea of intellectual property is a complex one, the simple fact is that unused software has no value to society beyond the academic. Courts are not required to make decisions with society in mind and citizens are not require to be completely lawful - morality cannot be legislated. Furthermore, attempts to do so only highlight the boundary between the courts and the average citizen - giving further disregard for the law!

A more intelligent, ethical people might see the futility in this and via for another solution; or at the very minimum some understanding of the effects of technology on society - how our old ideas become less applicable, or lose meaning in another context.

_________________
¯\(°_o)/¯ unlicense.org


Last edited by bitRAKE on 30 Apr 2009, 04:11; edited 1 time in total
Post 17 Apr 2009, 16:28
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Enko



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Enko
some kinde of Piratebay press conference:
http://thepiratebay.org/special/2009epicwinanyhow.php
Post 18 Apr 2009, 04:21
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
As we all know, aiding and abetting a crime is also a crime. And this is what they were convicted of.

So the question becomes did they know that they were helping people to do illegal copying. The answer is no, they could not have been certain. Of course any reasonable person knows what is happening but without proof there is no reason to act. BUT when the RIAA (and others) informed them of the infringement, that is where they made their mistake. If they wanted to keep out of the courts all they had to do was remove the content when they were asked, and they would not have had any problem. This is why google and youtube can still be legal, because they will remove content when asked.

I also think their immature responses to take down notices did not help them. That was just kind of silly. If they had taken down links the users would have posted them again very quickly, nobody would have been sued and the site would still run. So the cycle would have been: user posts a link - RIAA complain - TPB remove link (after suitable delay) - user posts link again - RIAA complain again - TPB remove link (after suitable delay) etc. Each cycle takes a few days. Mailing official take down letters and "administrative" delays in TPB to process etc. would mean that links are there pretty much permanently with just a few hours each time before someone posts the link again.

Anyhow none of this will really help the RIAA. The users will just find other ways to distribute. It is a fundamentally unsolvable problem. Decentralised hosting systems are easy to deploy. When there is no one person/group to sue then the RIAA can't do anything.

One silly suggestion that was mooted to "solve" the problem was a tax on the internet connection (that then goes to RIAA). This is even worse than litigation. Only a minority download the content and it is entirely unfair to tax everyone for it. I would hope that any government that imposes such rules would be quickly ousted.

In the age of the internet (now) the rules of copyright have become unworkable and the whole system needs to be rethought. They have to find another way.
Post 19 Apr 2009, 04:09
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Enko



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Enko
Anyway, in the press conference they say that one year of prison is too much for braking copyright laws in Sweden.
And yes, they acted silly not taking down the reported links, but, if they where google, ¿is it really possible to make google delete all the ilegal links? there is just too much content, there would be still a lot of links with ilegal staff.

Something else need to be changed, and yet, someone will need to find this answer.
Post 19 Apr 2009, 06:55
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ManOfSteel



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ManOfSteel
revolution wrote:
If they wanted to keep out of the courts all they had to do was remove the content when they were asked, and they would not have had any problem.

Come on, revolution. Have you ever been on TPB? They have around 1,700,000 torrents, and you can't imagine how many of them are bundles. Sometimes, you can find book or music libraries with many thousand entries. How many legal-content torrents do you think there are?

One of the materials they presented during the trial was the Prison Break show. I was curious to know how many results would such a popular show have on TPB. Guess what? Around 1,000, from individual HDTV Xvids and MP4 rips episodes to entire seasons! And Prison Break is far from being the only one.


revolution wrote:
Anyhow none of this will really help the RIAA. The users will just find other ways to distribute. It is a fundamentally unsolvable problem. Decentralised hosting systems are easy to deploy. When there is no one person/group to sue then the RIAA can't do anything.

Decentralised hosting + encryption. He who laughs last, laughs best.
Post 19 Apr 2009, 08:30
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
ManOfSteel wrote:
Come on, revolution. Have you ever been on TPB? They have around 1,700,000 torrents, and you can't imagine how many of them are bundles. Sometimes, you can find book or music libraries with many thousand entries. How many legal-content torrents do you think there are?

One of the materials they presented during the trial was the Prison Break show. I was curious to know how many results would such a popular show have on TPB. Guess what? Around 1,000, from individual HDTV Xvids and MP4 rips episodes to entire seasons! And Prison Break is far from being the only one.
Actually that was kind of my point. With so much stuff to remove there would be a considerable "administrative delay" in getting around to removing the content. And each and every torrent would require a letter from RIAA. Throw the work into the hands of the RIAA to identify which torrents are infringing. Just this step alone is a lot. And remember you can't simply go by the title, you have to see the actual content before you know what the torrent has inside. By showing that TPB were willing to comply (albeit not entirely instantly) then the courts can't touch them.
Post 19 Apr 2009, 10:48
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Raedwulf



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Raedwulf
I guess calling it the PIRATE bay, did also suggest that TPB supported piracy Razz.
Post 20 Apr 2009, 10:32
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Coddy41



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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Coddy41
yeah, PIRATE bay was a name that let you know what you was doing Laughing
But how much money does Holly wood or any huge prophet company need?
Post 20 Apr 2009, 15:26
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Enko



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Enko
With the same point of view as the veredict, they can put to jail dvd players manafacturers. (dvd that reproduce divx). As it is very dificult that someone reproduce divx when they have original dvd copy.
I mean, if you develop dvdplayers with divx, you are helping the piracy becouse if someone put there a divx, its becouse they don't have the orignal dvd. Doesn't make any sence, or not?
Post 20 Apr 2009, 23:19
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Coddy41



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Coddy41
piracy will never end, no matter how many billions you put towered it, hackers with never stop finding ways.....
Post 21 Apr 2009, 00:22
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Enko wrote:
With the same point of view as the veredict, they can put to jail dvd players manafacturers. (dvd that reproduce divx). As it is very dificult that someone reproduce divx when they have original dvd copy.
I mean, if you develop dvdplayers with divx, you are helping the piracy becouse if someone put there a divx, its becouse they don't have the orignal dvd. Doesn't make any sence, or not?
This is not the same. If something is shown to have significant non-infringing use then it is perfectly legal. Do you think we should ban cars because people can use them to help with robbing banks.
Post 21 Apr 2009, 01:26
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Enko



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Enko
revolution wrote:
Enko wrote:
With the same point of view as the veredict, they can put to jail dvd players manafacturers. (dvd that reproduce divx). As it is very dificult that someone reproduce divx when they have original dvd copy.
I mean, if you develop dvdplayers with divx, you are helping the piracy becouse if someone put there a divx, its becouse they don't have the orignal dvd. Doesn't make any sence, or not?
This is not the same. If something is shown to have significant non-infringing use then it is perfectly legal. Do you think we should ban cars because people can use them to help with robbing banks.

No, I don't think this.
But if no one think this, why shoud we ban torrent sites becouse of people can use them to upload ilegal torrents.?

Take in acount that I put here your words, just changed "cars" with "torrent sites" and "banks" with "copyrighted movies"
Code:
Do you think we should ban cars because people can use them to help with robbing banks.
Do you think we should ban torrent sites becouse peaple can use them to help whith robbink copyrighted movies.
    
Post 22 Apr 2009, 14:48
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Enko: The clause "significant non-infringing use" is important to keep the context of what I said. Can you apply the same use context to cars as to torrent sites? Only a small fraction of car use is for illegal purposes, but a significant portion of torrent use is for illegal purposes, that is the difference.
Post 22 Apr 2009, 14:59
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Enko



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Enko
revolution wrote:
Enko: The clause "significant non-infringing use" is important to keep the context of what I said. Can you apply the same use context to cars as to torrent sites? Only a small fraction of car use is for illegal purposes, but a significant portion of torrent use is for illegal purposes, that is the difference.

This is a political issue, not judicial. Judges don't must take in acount political issues in their veredict. They just must interpret the law.
If someone want a change, fist a law need to apear that talks about torrent sites and their illegal isuses. (as in Sweden, they don't youse CommonLaw Sistem)
Post 22 Apr 2009, 15:26
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
I still don't get how your example of a DVD manufacturer can be responsible for the content played on it. TPB site owners are (rightly) responsible for what appears on their website because they are in control of it. But a DVD maker cannot control what content you decide to play on it.
Post 22 Apr 2009, 15:39
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Enko



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Enko
Quote:
I still don't get how your example of a DVD manufacturer can be responsible for the content played on it

This was exactly my point, dvd manufacturers are not responsible, so why should torrent sites owners?



Quote:

I still don't get how Torrent sites owner can be resonsible of the contet upoaded to it.


Last edited by Enko on 22 Apr 2009, 16:06; edited 1 time in total
Post 22 Apr 2009, 15:50
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