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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Azu wrote:
All knowledge disproves real (not pseudo, which is determinable given enough processing power) randomess, and nothing proves it, so..
Quantum mechanics...
No such thing as pseudo random in analog world (aka real world).
Just true randomness.

Azu wrote:
Yes, determinism/causality/physics (the laws that events aren't caused by nothing) exist.
What caused the Big Bang? What caused the matter? You say you don't know and it is impossible to know, then how can you make such a statement?

Correct would be to say that you don't know if it exists since you have no idea what caused the Big Bang and will never know. (some say God, but whatever it is, it's still unknown to details).

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Post 16 Jan 2009, 16:20
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Azu
Borsuc wrote:
Quantum mechanics...
Just because you don't know of a way to predict it yet doesn't make it truely random.

True random would be not based anything, rather then just having a lot of complicated variables effecting it which is simply pseudo random.



Borsuc wrote:
What caused the Big Bang? What caused the matter? You say you don't know and it is impossible to know, then how can you make such a statement?

Correct would be to say that you don't know if it exists since you have no idea what caused the Big Bang and will never know. (some say God, but whatever it is, it's still unknown to details).
The only one who said anything about the big bang is you.

I'm not sure why you're even assuming that ever WAS a "first event". For all we know the universe could have existed forever. There might have been a big bang, and it might have just followed a big crunchy, which might have followed an endless series of them. We don't have anywhere near the technology that would be needed to figure that out, yet.
Post 17 Jan 2009, 02:26
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Azu wrote:
Just because you don't know of a way to predict it yet doesn't make it truely random.
Actually, you do know how to predict it, but with a given chance (the "wave function" remember?).

If I put the code "call rand", which is a function that calculates randomness magically without a seed, then it is random. Smile

Azu wrote:
The only one who said anything about the big bang is you.

I'm not sure why you're even assuming that ever WAS a "first event". For all we know the universe could have existed forever. There might have been a big bang, and it might have just followed a big crunchy, which might have followed an endless series of them. We don't have anywhere near the technology that would be needed to figure that out, yet.
1) The universe is expanding, accelerating, not decelerating, so Big Crunch has a low probability of being true.

2) "Forever" means there is no "first cause" and doesn't work well with cause & effect Razz

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Post 17 Jan 2009, 16:55
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Azu
Borsuc wrote:
a function that calculates randomness magically without a seed
All PRNGs use one or more seeds. Perceived RNGs are simply PRNGs with lots of and/or complicated and/or hidden seeds.

Quote:
1) The universe is expanding, accelerating, not decelerating, so Big Crunch has a low probability of being true.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about past. Usually when somebody brings up the big bang they are talking about something that already happened, not the future.

Quote:
2) "Forever" means there is no "first cause" and doesn't work well with cause & effect Razz
No. It means that each event was preceeded by another, and that this goes on forever.

Just like there doesn't have to be a last event, that is followed by nothing.
Post 18 Jan 2009, 02:49
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Azu wrote:
All PRNGs use one or more seeds. Perceived RNGs are simply PRNGs with lots of and/or complicated and/or hidden seeds.
But it is not a PRNG, it's a RNG. We know from analog that we can have infinite precision and irrational numbers without loss, while in digital we must quantize the signal (albeit, at least not susceptible to noise). It is not as easy in analog world. And we live in analog world Wink

Azu wrote:
Sorry, I thought you were talking about past. Usually when somebody brings up the big bang they are talking about something that already happened, not the future.
Think about it Wink
If the Universe is accelerating now, it means 'another' Big Bang won't happen, so it doesn't repeat to infinity over and over again Smile

Azu wrote:
No. It means that each event was preceeded by another, and that this goes on forever.

Just like there doesn't have to be a last event, that is followed by nothing.
Oh ok that is more infinite-related and I acknowledge you can't explain (and I can understand, since I can't either). Stuff like:

What happened at time=0? The cause of that? These questions don't make sense do they (in your viewpoint I mean).

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Post 18 Jan 2009, 23:56
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Azu



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Azu
Borsuc wrote:
Azu wrote:
All PRNGs use one or more seeds. Perceived RNGs are simply PRNGs with lots of and/or complicated and/or hidden seeds.
But it is not a PRNG, it's a RNG. We know from analog that we can have infinite precision and irrational numbers without loss, while in digital we must quantize the signal (albeit, at least not susceptible to noise). It is not as easy in analog world. And we live in analog world Wink
Whatever medium the seed is in, it's still there.
The so called "random chances" aren't being influenced by nothingness. They are being influenced by things that exist. All events are.

Borsuc wrote:
Azu wrote:
Sorry, I thought you were talking about past. Usually when somebody brings up the big bang they are talking about something that already happened, not the future.
Think about it Wink
If the Universe is accelerating now, it means 'another' Big Bang won't happen, so it doesn't repeat to infinity over and over again Smile
Okay. I understand now. I thought you were trying to make a point about the beginning of the universe, sorry. I should have read your post more carefully.


Borsuc wrote:
Azu wrote:
No. It means that each event was preceeded by another, and that this goes on forever.

Just like there doesn't have to be a last event, that is followed by nothing.
Oh ok that is more infinite-related and I acknowledge you can't explain (and I can understand, since I can't either). Stuff like:

What happened at time=0? The cause of that? These questions don't make sense do they (in your viewpoint I mean).
Agreed. I'm not sure why people assume there even is a time=0. There's not really any way to know whether there is or not, aside from existing before then.
Post 19 Jan 2009, 08:00
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