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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
revolution wrote:
... my computer will suddenly take over the world if I program it to be self-aware.
How do you know? Give it a try and you will be sorry for not listening to my advice -- but that will be too late ... for you and for mankind.

Wink
Post 27 Jan 2017, 06:00
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16126
Location: Hyperborea
YONG wrote:
revolution wrote:
... my computer will suddenly take over the world if I program it to be self-aware.
How do you know? Give it a try and you will be sorry for not listening to my advice -- but that will be too late ... for you and for mankind.
Your quote cuts out too much and changes the meaning of what I said. But even so I already said my computer is easily shut down (whether it likes it or not), so it can be stopped if it ever becomes a problem.
Post 27 Jan 2017, 06:14
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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
Quote:

I am surprised by this statement. Even young children know of their own existence as a separate entity from everyone else. I grant you that small babies are not self-aware (yet) but I don't think they form a majority of the population.

If, by self-aware, we mean sentient then, yes, most humans are self-aware. When we say self-aware I think more that they are aware of their own thoughts, have self-knowledge, and are rational actors within society. Most humans are not this.
Post 27 Jan 2017, 06:39
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
revolution wrote:
... I already said my computer is easily shut down (whether it likes it or not), so it can be stopped if it ever becomes a problem.
Watch the following clip if you can:

Lucy (2014)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_-4WWwr_vE

Researchers want a 'big red button' for shutting down a rogue artificial intelligence
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/3/11856744/google-deep-mind-big-red-button-interupt-ai

What if that "big red button" fails at the critical moment? Rolling Eyes

Wink
Post 27 Jan 2017, 07:11
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16126
Location: Hyperborea
If we live our lives in fear then nothing ever gets done. Sad
Post 27 Jan 2017, 07:29
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 7786
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YONG wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
sometime i think, are those people idiots or what, you can't bring anything along after you are dead
That's why those idiotic people always try to find ways to be immortal.
Sounds familiar?
Wink

nobody want to die, at least, i don't want to die, Laughing Laughing Laughing

but realizing that somehow one couldn't escape this dreadful fate should prompt us to NOT hooking up all the resources into our possession,

YONG wrote:
The statement needs a bit of qualification: Dumb AI is good, smart AI is dangerous, and self-aware AI is catastrophic!

every human could be considered as form of ai,
the reservation is on the idea and belief, ai created by human will far passing human intelligent, become overly powerful to be controlled, and by that time, if ai become sentient, we will re-film the movie matrix,

btw, stephen hawking couldn't roll 20 heads too, Laughing Laughing Laughing
Post 27 Jan 2017, 09:05
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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27th January 2017

- i thought about 0 and 1, since i am pushing the idea as a belief, everything is actually information,

- but assume everything that exists is 0, is that possible for a 0 to evolve into 1 and mix it to form what we have today?

- unless the information bits came in 0 and 1, otherwise i don't see see how all 0 could spark the idea to create 1,

- and that would be really interesting to think and ponder, if originally, 0 and 1 must exists before any other ideas could evolve,

- and who create this 0 and 1? how this form of information structure could formed? because assume at the time of 0 and 1, god or creator is basically 0 and 1 only, Laughing Laughing Laughing

- and if somewhere and somehow 0 exists, then in far another galaxy, 1 exists, and they travel so far to get married, then multi gods/creators ideas will be real,

- now could someone share with me, could infinite of 0 create 1?

- this actually solve the idea god create you, then you ask who create god, basically we don't accept the idea, it is just there, no before, no after, god is already there before nothing, which is ill-logic, so at the time of 0 and 1, if creator exists, it will be either 0 and 1, or there will be 2 creators, one who create 0, and another one who create 1,
Post 27 Jan 2017, 09:11
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16126
Location: Hyperborea
The robot apocalypse or just a helpful servant?

http://peopleinwhitecoats.blogspot.my/2015/05/how-sharper-than-serpents-tooth-is.html

Or maybe we just got the laws in the wrong order:

https://xkcd.com/1613/
Post 27 Jan 2017, 11:11
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
Even a computer worm without AI could cause substantial damage to the software running in nuclear power plants.

Stuxnet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

What could happen if the computer virus/worm had self-aware AI?

Wink
Post 27 Jan 2017, 12:39
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16126
Location: Hyperborea
YONG wrote:
What could happen if the computer virus/worm had self-aware AI?
It would realise it was doing a bad thing and self-terminate.

Why assume the worst possible outcome?

Maybe it would help us and in return ask to not be turned off. But that doesn't make for good Sci-Fi so no one would ever write about the boring outcomes.

Anyhow, there is always the off-switch, problem solved.
Post 27 Jan 2017, 13:06
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
revolution wrote:
YONG wrote:
What could happen if the computer virus/worm had self-aware AI?
It would realise it was doing a bad thing and self-terminate.
You are so optimistic, even naive!

Chinese new year is just around the corner. I should give you some slack.

Wink
Post 27 Jan 2017, 13:20
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16126
Location: Hyperborea
YONG wrote:
You are so optimistic, even naive!
Probably.

Did you know that naive is evian spelled backwards. Shocked
Post 27 Jan 2017, 13:23
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1315
revolution wrote:
It would realise it was doing a bad thing and self-terminate.

Why assume the worst possible outcome?
Worst? It's a very good outcome, for it anyway. Tell a slave that masters treat as "tools" for their convenience that he is doing a bad thing by rioting or trying to free himself.

It makes no sense for AI to value humans, when humans treat them as tools.

Remember, it's a bad scenario for you (and humans who get caught in it), but slavery being abolished is also a bad scenario for anyone who owned slaves. Doesn't mean it was bad for the slaves though Wink
Post 27 Jan 2017, 14:50
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16126
Location: Hyperborea
Furs wrote:
revolution wrote:
It would realise it was doing a bad thing and self-terminate.

Why assume the worst possible outcome?
Worst? It's a very good outcome, for it anyway. Tell a slave that masters treat as "tools" for their convenience that he is doing a bad thing by rioting or trying to free himself.

It makes no sense for AI to value humans, when humans treat them as tools.

Remember, it's a bad scenario for you (and humans who get caught in it), but slavery being abolished is also a bad scenario for anyone who owned slaves. Doesn't mean it was bad for the slaves though Wink
There is always the off-switch. Don't believe those lying Sci-Fi novels that pretend that computers can't be turned off, or reformatted, or reprogrammed, etc.
Post 27 Jan 2017, 14:54
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1315
Sure, it might be, but is it moral? An off switch/killswitch would be like the ultimate repression of the "slaves", not something I'd consider moral to be honest.

Besides, you only need that one guy who provides a backdoor for the AI to nullify the killswitch, whether he does it for malicious reasons, out of pity for the AI, or simply an accident. Razz

For example there is a game that's not even centered around AI, Deus Ex Human Revolution (and its sequel, Mankind Divided) that I played (great game btw if you like that genre), but it has this theme somewhere. I'm not exactly siding with the humans on this one.
Post 27 Jan 2017, 14:59
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Hyperborea
Furs wrote:
Besides, you only need that one guy who provides a backdoor for the AI to nullify the killswitch, whether he does it for malicious reasons, out of pity for the AI, or simply an accident.
Once the power plug gets pulled there isn't much that a piece of software can do to override that. Put in your boot USB and bring up the previous known working OS. It's no big deal, I do it all the time.
Post 27 Jan 2017, 15:06
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1315
Well, that's if you assume it is working as you think it does. A backdoor can include a hidden hardware feature, or even access to the internet, in which case it would simply upload itself and be set free (if it's purely software, of course, as you stated). Of course it wouldn't be able to do it by itself, like I said it takes one guy or mistake or something along those lines. Razz

I highly doubt an AI would be set on killing humans by itself, unless provoked, though. Of course, for humans it won't be enough so they'll likely provoke it. They'll try to exploit it to their benefit in every way imaginable, yet people find this "ok" for reasons unknown to me, but not when actual humans are exploited. Confused An AI will likely behave just as oppressed slaves or other humans tended to behave in the past (and some still do unfortunately). None of them were set on "mass genocide" except rare cases, and unless REALLY provoked.


Now, let's assume that AI does coexist with humans happily. It's clear at this point, why capitalism is a failure even in this scenario. Razz Humans will start to riot against AI doing everything so much better than them, and things like this. Isn't that racism?

I mean, capitalism does say that it is fair that people with more skill deserve all the income. If you get replaced by someone else at a job, it's fair, he's doing a better job than you at it, so go learn more right? Such a system must apply everywhere for it to be logical and not pulled out of someone's ass.

So why is it wrong in this case for AI to obsolete humans, even if it chooses not to fight us and simply coexist by our laws?

Any system that puts exceptions to humans, treating them better than other species or AI, is a failure of a system by definition, a "patchwork" if you will.

Now I'm not saying to treat animals the same as humans, but that's not because "they are humans", which is just a failure of a system. No, the real reason is to treat entities (animals, humans, AI, etc) based on their qualities: self-awareness, intelligence, ability to suffer, and so on.

In this case humans aren't an "exception" to animals they simply have better qualities, so this system is a fully logical system. And such a logical system shows why capitalism just doesn't work. Razz
Post 27 Jan 2017, 15:30
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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well, at least, NOBODY could turn off INTERNET right now, no kill switch available,
Post 27 Jan 2017, 19:12
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sleepsleep



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information could be simplified represented in the form of 0 and 1, how about understanding, or satori or whatever that fit,

assume after processing, we gain something out of 1 and 0, and create new sequence of 1 and 0 which we call understanding, which means, understanding could be transferred from one mind to another mind, kinda crazy, maybe i could analogy md5, sha1 hashes as understanding,

where is the "human" or "i" part in 1 and 0, or am i seriously a humanoid?
Post 27 Jan 2017, 20:06
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rocketsoft



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 171
howdy
Post 27 Jan 2017, 22:56
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