A list of FASM forum participants who would like to attend the forthcoming conference would likely increase in quantity once a PROGRAM of activity for the gathering is described. Last year's conference was a success, not only because the meeting took place, but also because a substantial portion of the program was transmitted by internet to those of us unable to attend, due to other obligations. This year's conference could improve on the meeting of last year, by establishing an actual program of activity, so that there would be MORE than a social interaction impetus to overcome the inertia of not attending. For some folks a thousand dollars is a non-trivial amount of money, and that is about what it will cost for an economy flight and hotels for three days in Finland or Estonia. So, in summary, I do not disagree with MazeGen or HyperVista, about the importance of acknowledging a willingness to attend, but, I believe that the ideal number of participants is more than six, and without a program, I think that is about the maximum number who will attend. For myself, if I attend, it will be to encourage acrimonious debate, seek statuesque nymphs, marvel at the beautiful baroque architecture, and attend as many organ recitals as possible. August is a good month, but so is every other month for me.

I am inclined to agree. For a person like myself, a visit over to a conference would cost me a lot of money and organization that I cannot find anything I could do there to justify. Now if I were a FASM guru who actually had something to say there, things could be different.

I am thinking making it a teleconference would be no less professional and would allow more of us to attend. Surely there is some multimedia mechanism of the internet that'd allow us to be there more interactively (than irc?)?

tom:

As for Europe, you can get the flight ticket to Helsinki roughly for $350. Two nights in a budget hotel is roughly $90 (http://tinyurl.com/2olpy9). So you can fairly get below $1000.

BTW, I don't vote for Helsinki, it is just an example.

I'm assured of one thing: If you would join the meeting, I wouldn't understand any single sentence of yours, tom

DustWolf: Yeah, a teleconference would be very nice, but I know nothing about it unfortunately so can't help...

Me and Ender2101 both want to come, we should be able to reserve some time in August, and as for the money... well, depends where it would be. Praha would perhaps be cheap for us to get there; though I like the idea of Helsinki...

tom, I agree that posting an agenda would be helpful to those deciding to participate in person. Until a location is determined, the extra curricular activity will have to be designated TBD (To Be Determined). Suffice it to say regardless of venue, the social activities will involve alcohol, great conversation, wonderful sights, great food, and plenty of empy pizza boxes (inside joke from last year's gathering). I would suggest that when we do decide the location collectively that you (tom) be designated to prepare a historical perspective of that location and perhaps conduct a history walk/tour/lecture for us. You may also wish to volunteer to present a technical talk.

I urge all who wish to participate to offer a topic of interest to present. I'll start by offering to prepare a talk on "Windows Kernel Mode Programming with fasm". Once we gather some other talk topics, we can draft the technical agenda.

Regarding the selection of location, here is an annotated map with those who participated last year and are assumed to participate this year. As you can see from the map, if we were to decide on this map alone using the line of best fit median point method, the conference would be held in Warsaw / Gadansk area .... (fyi, you may have to zoom out to see Madis731 ). Now, staying with this median point method, if Dex4U, sylwek32 and Remy Vincent commit, the median point may swing toward Berlin, if Maverick joins, then perhaps Vienna, Munchen, or Innsbruck. That said, in my opinion, Tomasz's input on location should be heavily weighted.

i think we should seriously consider Praha (Prague), it might be better location for Polish/Slovak/Czech/Ukrainian/German/Austrian/Hungarian guys than Finland.

It is antique city with lot of sightseeing and with lot of beer to taste.

I hope that people from further locations will be able to attend to Praha too, that should be solved personally.

Also: shoorick, MCD, would you participate?

I feel compelled to say that the main reason I don't attend these gatherings is because of the focus on alcohol. As you guessed I don't drink the stuff and I feel uneasy around people that are drinking. Too many bad experiences has made me avoid it all.

So, would there be any type of non-alcoholic activities that might be considered a desirable activity? I do enjoy the company of like minded technically savvy people but once the booze comes out I quickly make haste to find another place to go.

hi revolution. at the last gathering, some of us didn't drink much at all, if any. we had a really nice history walk with Tomasz to the old castle, the ancient university, and old walled sections of Krakow. we had a nice dinner together, and the technical discussion on Saturday. it's not all a drinkfest and would urge you to come. i promise you will enjoy it.

i for one, would really enjoy a talk on fasmARM conducted by you

HyperVista, you missed one person on your map, yourself!

I saw some of the pictures of the city with you guys walking about. It looked nice and peaceful. And I am a little bit thinking about attending the next. But, also, a short notice trip is difficult to arrange. I already have two long trip for August (Ohio and Penang) then November is Mumbai and England in January. September or October would suit best but the decision has to be made almost immediately and even then I can't guarantee .

okay ... added myself to the map, but now when it opens, it places you out in the Atlantic near Great Britain

Ohio and Penang in August??!!! Europe is nearly halfway between, hopefully you can stop over on your way to and fro

In my opinion, both cities are excellent choices, and why not schedule one for this year, and the other for 2008, unless some deluded persons were contemplating BeiJing in 2008.
The advantage of deciding relatively quickly, on both location and date, can not be stressed too much. Since Tomasz is free in August, and has suggested both cities, I would think that the concensus now should focus on choosing between these two wonderful cities, firming up a specific day(s), and elaborating a couple of more topics with speakers leading the discussions. I think an OS topic, and an update on FRESH, and some comments on the forthcoming version of FASM, would be useful to discuss, in addition to the two excellent suggestions from HyperVista: fasmARM, and winkernel programming. Of course, if Shoorick attends, we will also require an update on the Tiger situation. If city X is decided upon, then, WHERE in that city, i.e. hotel versus university, versus meeting hall, shall we convene? Once the location within the city is identified, then, the next step is to find out about internet access, in order to transmit the conference to Columbia, Alabama, Paris, HongKong, India, Malaysia, and the MANY other places on the planet, where people have an interest in FASM, but may not have an opportunity to visit central Europe. To facilitate the organizational aspects of the conference, what is really needed is for someone, either in Helsinki, or Prague, to TAKE COMMAND. We need an organizer, who will find the space, investigate hotel accommodations, and line up internet access for two days and three nights. That's a big chore. Might be worth a tad more than just one of MCD's plastic bags.

revolution, believe it or not, even vid was not drunk for some short moments

Just joking. In fact, we cracked a bottle of vid's slivovitz on our way to Kraków. That's why vid needed to reboot in that restaurant same evening. All the others were sober (except me). Next two days, all that we drinked out was a few beers. So, as HyperVista said, it is really not a drinkfest.

Yey! You all come to Finland and Estonia - this time, I'm in the tour-guide role No matter in Finland or Estonia. I speak both. And in Finland there are at least two FASMers who speak it natively. All dates fit me!

But even if you decide some Western-European countries, don't count me out just yet

revolution: don't worry, there wasn't really much drinking in there. It was just as MazeGen told, i passed one bottle on my way to krakow, and so i was drunk for the first day. Most people there were sober (i still feel sorry for them). On 2nd and 3rd day, when presentations were taking place, i didn't drink (i had few beers, but that had nothing with getting drunk, just a thirst thing)

Yes, there would probably be drinking on first day when we meet, but it's by no means mandatory. Just look at people willing to attend, "drinkers" will probably be minority in there.

Presentation on how you created FASMARM, what were important design choices etc... would be very welcomed.

Madis: sure we count on you
it's good to know that you speak finnish, that could be useful in case of finland.

Madis, listen to me. It isn't TOUR GUIDE that is required. It is ORGANIZER.
Are you willing to ORGANIZE this gathering for Estonia?
If so, then, I will be present, and I will give a half hour presentation on my favorite topic: the ideal cpu, an entirely new design--using an old motherboard. The alternate title is Tricycle versus Mercedes. Hint: which would travel faster on the streets of ShangHai?
I am sure that those who wish to visit Helsinki AFTER or BEFORE the conference, could do so, easily from Talinn. Madis, this is a GOOD opportunity to back away, if you are unsure about handling this responsibility. It is not easy to organize a conference for a couple dozen folks.

nonsense. I intend to drink enough for two or three folks. If we add you and MazeGen and HyperVista, there should be an ample supply of inebriated types, to easily outnumber the sober folks.
Anyway, vid is correct, there will be no mixing of alcohol and technical session discussion. Caffeine is another story.
Revolution: are you opposed to ALL pharmacologic agents, or only the depressants, such as midazolam and alcohol.....
Do you drink coffee????
How about Tea????
I guess you probably dislike my favorite: Bulgarian yoghurt (fermented milk), and bread (fermented wheat), since they, like alcohol production in beer and wine, represent NATURAL processes of bacterial agents, leading to fermentation. Next you will inform us that you will not consume goat cheese....Oops. Now we're in trouble. Just please, don't forbid my daily dose of garlic--I need that to keep the religious kooks at arm's length. Come to think of it, those folks prohibit fermented, biologically processed food also...Hmmm.

..

edit what?

tom - i suspect revolution's concern was more to the general effect of alcohol consumption on some (not all), as opposed to the act of consumption itself. i propose that questioning his potential objection to the consumption of fermented yougut and linking that to religious zelotry is a bit leading and provocative.

i think his concern is more to having to tolerate obnoxious behavior and would suggest that sentiment probably extends to those who achieve that state naturally, without the aide of alcohol.

the planning and realization of the fasm conference should be a fun endeavor and i hope we can do it without baiting others into controversial dialogue.

you are correct, i plan on hoisting a few with you, vid, MazeGen and others who are inclinde. but i see no need to provoke those who don't wish to join us in that pursuit. i look forward to meeting you and other fasm members in August.... somewhere

btw, i felt certain the technical topic you would choose would have been either the use of XOR, or the obfuscated nature of the fasm code constructs. i must say, your topic sounds very intriquing.

To clarify, in case anyone else was also unclear after reading my passage above, bread and yogurt are fermented. The old testament, i.e. Jews, and like minded believers, i.e. Muslims and some flavors of Christians, and Hindus, PROHIBIT all biologically modified foodstuffs, including beverages. "Flat bread", i.e. "unleavened", i.e. non-fermented bread, is found throughout the Jewish, Hindu and Muslim world, because of this prohibition. The ostensible rationale for this prohibition, like all "laws" is to regulate society, maybe that is a good thing, I can not say. Writing my own opinion, prohibition and restrictions are not useful. I prefer options, opportunities, and leading by example, rather than absolute dicta in guiding human behaviour. I believe in the policy of challenging all religious precepts, as dogma based on ignorance.
My query to revolution was simple: Is he only opposed to ethanol, or to all biologically transformed food stuffs, or is he opposed to ALL pharmacologically active metabolites? I do not know whether my query falls in the category of "leading" and "provocative", though it was asked with a certain innate degree of animosity, because of years of exposure to holier than thou types in my immediate family, non-drinkers, and non-thinkers. If I have offended revolution, then he is welcome to join the back of the (long) line with all the rest who have been offended by my questions during the past six decades!!!
About my topic: I am interested in designing a new cpu, one which is completely different from all existing cpus, except that its electrical specifications shall permit interoperability with existing sockets, for example 370 or whatever, and with existing 64 bit dram. The bios must be completely redone. The fundamental aspect of this cpu which is different from all existing cpu architectures is the CHEAP memory surrounding the cpu. So, for example, whereas a MODERN cpu has cache memory, this new cpu would NOT have cache memory, it (i.e. ONE of the MANY cpus on the chip) would have instead (a much slower) access to its own PRIVATE memory, which each of the (several) 64 bit cpus on the cpu chip would have. Unlike modern cpu designs, this one would have NO FLOATING POINT coprocessor. Every data would be stored in memory, instead. All transcendentals, all logarithms, EVERYTHING would be looked up in a table, not computed. I will try to prepare a summary for the program, once we have a date, and time, and place, and so on. My goal is not to entertain, but to challenge, and promote THINKING, which Hegel, following the ancient Greeks, defined as the act of negating that which is immediately before us...