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Index > Projects and Ideas > Portable assembly code?(between archs)

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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7106
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
worry instead about what you want to accomplish and how to achieve it

I do. Even then, there are people who use 32bit machine, there are BSDers who use 64bit machine without any 32bit emulation, there are people who use ARM, etc. In most practical tasks you need to use external libraries, but most of those are not written in ASM, and so way to call them in Asm differs with OS calling standard, even on same processor.

These are some practical examples where assembly is inferior to HLLs. If you want your code to be usable for many people out there, you'll have to duplicate A LOT.
Post 03 May 2008, 09:02
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2468
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
vid wrote:
These are some practical examples where assembly is inferior to HLLs. If you want your code to be usable for many people out there, you'll have to duplicate A LOT.
I say that should be their problem.

I give off my sources so no one can complain. if they can make it more readable, they're more than welcome. Why is so hard to make it readable? Because I don't know how they think, for me asm and C are easy languages -- others prefer Pascal, etc.. I can't get into their heads so I leave it to them Wink

For me, C has advantages over asm, especially in design phase, or when testing new algorithms (but I still convert every C instruction to asm before, when I think up the algorithm, to know if it's efficient or not prematurely. Of course nothing beats a profiler, but that's just a preview).

That said, they don't exclude each other (C and asm), but complement each other. And assembly is very underrated IMO, especially when it comes to 'difficult to maintain/read/debug' part) It's not hard if you get used to it, but then again, I think everyone who is starting with asm will find it hard, just as they find their first languages very hard and full of bugs Wink
Post 03 May 2008, 09:24
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
I find it very very very hard to imagine that anyone thinks HLLs in general output good code. (They don't.) Also, not every platform has the latest GCC either. Plus some compilers (Intel) aren't free. And I certainly think a lot of 100% C code could be sped up with little asm bits here and there. Doesn't mean I'm against all HLLs, but for sure they aren't as utopian as some would have you believe. (And is it just me or is GCC kinda slow? Meh.)
Post 05 May 2008, 17:48
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
rugxulo: HLLs/compilers aren't the end-all-be-all magic silver bullet, the trick is being "good enough" and "comfortable enough to work with" - YMMV might vary wrt. just how good is good enough, but I don't think anybody claims that you can't usually beat a compiler.

And yeah, GCC is terribly slow, at least the versions I've tried. And for MSVC, there's also a noticeable speed hit betwen compiling .c and .cpp files (ie., compiling the same source in C or C++ mode).
Post 05 May 2008, 22:58
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Quote:

http://www.network-theory.co.uk/docs/gccintro/gccintro_49.html

Compiling with the option -O1 can often take less time than compiling with -O0, due to the reduced amounts of data that need to be processed after simple optimizations.


Uh ... yeah, sure, this makes perfect sense. Razz

But GCC is already pretty darn good, IMO. I just wish it was even better still (more cpu scheduling, better compile speed, easier to bootstrap) and maybe a bit less weirdly-designed!
Post 06 May 2008, 02:18
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penang



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 59
penang
As long as this is about porting fasm to different arch, I hope that one day I can see fasm being used in native GPU (ATI/Nvidia) programming.

Am not holding my breath though.
Post 07 May 2008, 16:25
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16847
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
penang wrote:
As long as this is about porting fasm to different arch, I hope that one day I can see fasm being used in native GPU (ATI/Nvidia) programming.

Am not holding my breath though.
Don't just sit back and wait for it to happen. Sit up and start programming it, that is how things will happen.
Post 07 May 2008, 16:31
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
penang, before Googling maybe you would like to see this first: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=3702
Post 07 May 2008, 19:07
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penang



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 59
penang
Quote:

penang, before Googling maybe you would like to see this first: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=3702



Thanks for the links. I'll soak them up.

In the meantime, the French are doing something about it .....

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcinpact.com%2Factu%2Fnews%2F43165-premier-supercalculateur-GPU-France-Tesla.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

For those who understand French ...

http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/43165-premier-supercalculateur-GPU-France-Tesla.htm?ca=&vc=1&p=3&#c1596463
Post 08 May 2008, 15:02
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