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flat assembler > Feedback > Locking "problem" threads

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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
kohlrak wrote:
If some one insults me, i see it as the whole community is insulting me,...

this is very interresting, and let us be perfectly clear that it has been your personal choice to take offense. It has likewise been your personal choice to take offense at the entire community. It has nothing to do with what has or has not been posted, it has to do with your choices. Make a different choice if something offends you, that is all, no need to respond, no need to take offense, just change your mind, simple as that. Someone is always going to take offense at any opinions, these are the immature and likely uneducated of the group.

I call people 'idiots' all day. 'Idiot Jeff', 'idiot sam', 'idiot kara', etc, etc. Idiot is the prefix I use for nearly everyone, even strangers. When I'm at the store and need help, I find a clerk and read their name...'Idiot mike, where is the dish soap?' I call everyone an idiot. It is the individuals choice to take at offense at my nick name or not, and only an idiot would take offense at being called an idiot, therefore the label is appropriate. If the person is not an idiot then the label means nothing. Only an idiot would take offense at being called pink or purple. A non-idiot could care less about meaningless and inappropriate labels. An intellectual might find the inappropriate labels comical. It has to do with maturity, an immature person makes the wrong choice and takes offense. A mature and intellectual person sees the childishness and it means nothing, no offense taken, its that simple.

Being a mature intellectual I do not take offense at what others say, I make a different choice. Rarely are people on messageboards intimate with one another and therefore their opinions of one another are most likely uneducated, speculative and probably wrong. Why take offense at someone's uneducated opinions? They're certainly entitled to their uneducated speculation, and must be very immature to form and voice such illiterate imagination. I like to know who these idiots are, perhaps a list of idiots would be appropriate with an idiot filter?

Note to moderator: how about an 'idiot filter' option that collapses the posts of idiots? the post would be present and one could view them, but their post would be tagged as 'idiot opinion' and wouldnt waste anyone's time while trying to learn or research.

FASM ROCKS
Post 03 Jan 2007, 15:25
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
An idiot list...., cool. If we listed the number of idiot comments and awarded a monthly prize, I could have something to aim for Very Happy
Post 03 Jan 2007, 20:48
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
Quote:
Please stop using that smug sanctimonious US attitude of inciting hatred and then running for the high moral ground, your actions are completely transparent.

You didn't answer my question and since you brought the subject of abortion up, I'll repeat it for you -


He's clearly hijacking my thread. Would this be a display of lack of self control? This thread was not to sit and discuss politics and moral, but he seems to now be asking for my personal opinion on moral of this weapon. I find it hard to see how this will contribute to the original topic at hand, which i do wish to keep this thread on.

Quote:
this board runs smoothly for 3.5 years without such censorship


(note ahead of time: quoted words weren't actually used, but are my personal words to describe the situation.)

Perhaps, then, some people have cooled off. I saw a community run for a long time without such censorship. The moderators themselves started picking favorites and writing exceptions to the rules for these favorites, and even they started to disobey their own rules. The community is probably still running, but the last time i was there, there was alot of obscenity (porn, cussing, flame battles, the works). I think, when reading this paragraph, you'll say, "That won't happen to me." Well it "didn't happen" to them either. It happened slowly enough for no-one to really notice a difference. I went away from it for a little while to worry about things like assembly, japanese, and the problems with my friends outside the community (as i didn't have many in it to begin with). When i pointed it out, no one came up with an answer other than "i don't know." This was the type of place that had alot of boards and alot of moderators to back it up. The last time i was there, i got into an argument with some of the "favorites" over one user who had insulted one person one night and he took offence to it to the point that he was harassing and slandering that user all over the boards. Needless to say, i was still an outsider to the place, but a little respected for how long i was going there. That was the cause for the "favorites" (who were there for either as long or less time than me, i forget) to get told to shutup by some of the other "favorites." Now they didn't refer to anyone as "favorites," but they revered themselves as unofficial moderators (the one who told the "bullies" to shut up confessed that he felt he was a moderator without deleting and locking abilities).

I actually saw the start of it. It had a no porn policy. What happened was that some one decided to post a reply in a post with porn in it. Well, the other users saw it and saw that no moderator erased it, so they started posting them too (though there was a specific topic of which i forget, but they were indeed on topic, which really wasn't of porn). Well, the moderators saw that alot of users were breaking this rule, and because it was so many users broke this rule for this post, they let it go for that post. Well, it continued for more than just that post. Just because they lasted 3.5 years, dosn't mean that they will continue to last on what we have. Every year we get more users, and perhaps sometime we will get enough users where some will start trying to see where their boundries with you stand. When they realize that you have a policy where you can talk about sensative topics until cussing or obvious insults are thrown onto the table (just like at Emuparadise) they'll keep pushing such sensative topics, and out of every bunch of new people that come, there will be some one who can't handle it well. This grudge holding by those many people of the minority will push the lines until some of you will be sick of your voulunteer job work (and i'm sure you have a breaking point). This'll cause them to be even more offended when the flame war begins and they'll start flamming back, eventually not caring for the rules. Depending on how long it takes to lock such event will decide if some of those involved (perhaps some which aren't so weak) will either leave or start trolling (but not enough to get immediatly banned), paying particular attention to the mods and the opposing side of the argument.

I beleive that any administration or community becomes comfortable with certain issues and opinions, and that they need "fresh blood" to keep them from going too far down the line. You go to a liberal website, you'll have alot of liberals there, and they'll influence each other's opinions to the point of becomming radical left. Same with conservatives. Perhaps the best example of such a community would be the catholic church around the time of the reformation.

Quote:
We have to (and have agreed to) trust the discretion of the mod or admin. If we think he or she is doing a lousy job or abusing power, we can speak up and launch a complain, just like what kohlrak has done. If nothing is done after all, simply stop surfing the board!


That's what this discussion is for. If nothing is done, i'll probably restrict myself from the off topic boards, and perhaps leave if feelings from those boards follow me around to the rest of the boards.

Quote:
this is very interresting, and let us be perfectly clear that it has been your personal choice to take offense. It has likewise been your personal choice to take offense at the entire community. It has nothing to do with what has or has not been posted, it has to do with your choices. Make a different choice if something offends you, that is all, no need to respond, no need to take offense, just change your mind, simple as that. Someone is always going to take offense at any opinions, these are the immature and likely uneducated of the group.


It is also one's personal decision to take offence to "cuss words" as well. I beleive that the community should be open to people of all ages, including the immature teenagers. From my personal experience, it is alot easier to either post a warning or not post it at all, than to hold back on chewing some one out.

Quote:
I call people 'idiots' all day. 'Idiot Jeff', 'idiot sam', 'idiot kara', etc, etc. Idiot is the prefix I use for nearly everyone, even strangers. When I'm at the store and need help, I find a clerk and read their name...'Idiot mike, where is the dish soap?' I call everyone an idiot. It is the individuals choice to take at offense at my nick name or not, and only an idiot would take offense at being called an idiot, therefore the label is appropriate. If the person is not an idiot then the label means nothing. Only an idiot would take offense at being called pink or purple. A non-idiot could care less about meaningless and inappropriate labels. An intellectual might find the inappropriate labels comical. It has to do with maturity, an immature person makes the wrong choice and takes offense. A mature and intellectual person sees the childishness and it means nothing, no offense taken, its that simple.


It might not be as humerous to intellectual people when it gets to the point that they persist and persist in their insults, like MichealH. It becomes "annoying."

Quote:
Being a mature intellectual I do not take offense at what others say, I make a different choice. Rarely are people on messageboards intimate with one another and therefore their opinions of one another are most likely uneducated, speculative and probably wrong. Why take offense at someone's uneducated opinions? They're certainly entitled to their uneducated speculation, and must be very immature to form and voice such illiterate imagination. I like to know who these idiots are, perhaps a list of idiots would be appropriate with an idiot filter?


But these "idiots'" opinions just may be taken in. I'll give you an example. Let's say some one says you wet the bed. Who cares if you do or not, right? Well, next thing you know you have random strangers comming up and asking you if you wet the bed. Now a few strangers, you won't mind and even lie that you do (assuming that you don't, but i don't care) as a joke. Next thing you know you'll have even more people comming up to you asking. This is because some people may not be educated in that particular area, and will take the opinions and be unable to seperate them from the facts. And from the way i see it, it annoys some people that such opinions be thrown on the table, because some people beleive that there are alot of "idiots" that'll listen to that opinion. If the "idiots" with little education are the ones calling the shots (perhaps because they are in the mijority) it becomes quite offencive. I often become annoyed at both sides of the Bush argument, even though i am on one of the 2 sides.

Quote:
Note to moderator: how about an 'idiot filter' option that collapses the posts of idiots? the post would be present and one could view them, but their post would be tagged as 'idiot opinion' and wouldnt waste anyone's time while trying to learn or research.


From my experience, such a feature would start flaming as well. I've seen a system like this (the forum "karma system" it is often called) and it is often used by "idiots" or people of an opposing side of an argument to unnerve or even "get back" at other users.

EDIT: At time of editing, i was just about to post a new topic to discuss why america has a 50% divorce rate, but i figured that even a warning of it being very offencive was still not enough for that topic, as it would offend the mijority. I'm curious on this topic, so i just may go to the very open Emuparadise community to discuss this issue sometime.
Post 04 Jan 2007, 02:47
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7109
Location: Slovakia
if someone reports he is offended by porn, i will censor it.
if someone reports he is offended by different opinion, his problem, no censorship.

For me, politics and religion are topics which SHOULD be discussed, otherwise people can stay without even knowing there are different ways in the world (eg. stay brainwashed)
Post 04 Jan 2007, 06:54
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
My problem is opinions are opinions, and some can be off the wall or way out on one side of the spectrum, and despite being crazy are still taken, sometimes, as fact. Certain such opinions, (awkwardly) in my opinion, are unneccesary. If i have an opinion on how some one is, should i make a topic on it and sit there bashing them with statements on what i think is true? One of those offencive topics deals with doing just that to Mr. Bush. The only difference is that he's not here to defend himself. That alone can be rather offencive. Now my whole argument isn't on bush, but alot of these offencive topics can be related to this example in an unusual way. It's like saying i have a best friend or a teacher that some one says wets the bed (here we go with that example again). Being affiliated with that person or idea would become an insult to me. That person may not really wet the bed, but it's still insulting.

Quote:
For me, politics and religion are topics which SHOULD be discussed, otherwise people can stay without even knowing there are different ways in the world (eg. stay brainwashed)


As i've pointed out, higly offecive topics, we really have little to no fact, but alot of opinion. This is a problem. The offence taken to porn is actually an example. If some one takes offence to porn, they're being insulted by it. Just like other insults, only it's graphic implimentation. I'm saying that some of these topics have sides that do nothing but slander. We can't talk about Bush and this Iraq war because too many people make money off of lieing about it to have true facts. We can't really debate much on abortion because it's mearly priorities that re being debated, and you really can't get anything out of insulting some one for their priorities on here. If you want your opinion to fly on these topics, get your own website to do it. I've noticed that these topics can be mearly rooted to ego. Iraq war debate boils down to weather or not you're a "pathetic bleeding heart" or a "religious zealot." Weather or not that's what each side really is, that's what i typically see by the end of each debate on these topics. Abortion topic boils down to "slut" or "bleeding heart (once again)" verses the "sexist" or (once again) "religous zealot." (From what i see) We can't really solve these high issues on these boards so talking about them can only change one's opinion on the subject or end up in one nasty flame battle or, in that really rare lucky situation, absolutely nothing. I question what we really have to gain from hearing opinions on abortion, hearing about what people think caused this war and what is being done, or other topics of this such. Maybe one could talk about religion safely as long as they're debating evolution or not. Evolution is a sensative topic as well that ends in the typical "pathetic sinner with no self control" or "religious zealot" result. These opinions may not be true, but it's usually what's said. Are the topics really worth the risk of such insults which could result in more insults?

I want to know what anyone can learn from hearing opinions on bush, abortion, gay marrige, and the rest.
Post 04 Jan 2007, 07:49
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4634
Location: Argentina
Quote:

I want to know what anyone can learn from hearing opinions on bush, abortion, gay marrige, and the rest.

Learn to vote better if you dislike something about he did for example, but to know what he did you must read (something that you seem to dislike very much and prefer to speak/write without any knowledge instead).

The ignorance is the best tool for goverments since them can manipulate you easily. Maybe you find this wierd because in your country seems to teach the people to just pay taxes and leave the goverment subjects to the politicians without wondering too much about what they are doing.

Anyway, if you are happy living in ignorance ok, but here there is people that wants to know so please stop bombing us with those post, no one will agree with you, if you want censored media then watch some CNN (english version) and/or participate in other forum (though, I think it's enough you ignore the "offensive" post).
Post 04 Jan 2007, 15:05
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
Quote:
Learn to vote better if you dislike something about he did for example, but to know what he did you must read (something that you seem to dislike very much and prefer to speak/write without any knowledge instead).


Even easier, you can learn half the opinions from a liberal news channel and the other half from a conservative news channel.

Quote:
The ignorance is the best tool for goverments since them can manipulate you easily. Maybe you find this wierd because in your country seems to teach the people to just pay taxes and leave the goverment subjects to the politicians without wondering too much about what they are doing.


What they're doing would be facts. What you think they are doing is opinions, and probably slander.

Quote:
Anyway, if you are happy living in ignorance ok, but here there is people that wants to know so please stop bombing us with those post, no one will agree with you, if you want censored media then watch some CNN (english version) and/or participate in other forum (though, I think it's enough you ignore the "offensive" post).


Seems like you're taking a little personalization from this topic. You could easily have ignored it if you felt that i was "bombing" you. Not everything is so easy to just ignor, and as i've said it's alot easier to either post a warning or not post the thing at all than for alot of people to sit and ignor it. Most opinions are generated from other sources which are easily accessable outside of here. There are plenty of these debates going on, some in even greater scale than here, and i'm sure you could learn alot more in those places.
Post 04 Jan 2007, 21:02
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7008
Location: Kraków, Poland
kohlrak wrote:
What they're doing would be facts. What you think they are doing is opinions, and probably slander.

What is his opinion is also a fact. Maybe even a fact of primary importance for, say, sociologist.
On the other hand the most of what we call "facts" may be nothing more than opinions, too. As what we know is what comes perceived by humans senses and then processed by human minds... More or less distorted in the process...
Post 04 Jan 2007, 21:36
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
Quote:
What is his opinion is also a fact. Maybe even a fact of primary importance for, say, sociologist.
On the other hand the most of what we call "facts" may be nothing more than opinions, too. As what we know is what comes perceived by humans senses and then processed by human minds... More or less distorted in the process...


Technically true. I was always taught that a fact was something that could be "proven" to be true. One's intentions are not provable in this day and age. They may never be provable. Though something being proven is a human concept and flawed in many ways (though best to save for another topic) it is still the basis for the differenciation for fact an opinion the way i was taught it.

Looking at the debates on abortion, it all boils down to weather or not the child is human or not. It's a matter of deciding if it is even human during the stages of development or not and if the mother has the right to kill the living thing if it is human. Looking at the debate on Iraq, it's mostly an argument on intentions of the ones who started it, the ones who continue to fight it, and those who used to fight it. As for debating some theories such as evolution, it seems to change so much people aren't even up to date with the current deffiniton of the theory. Heck, i feel they need to start including a version number with the theory so everyone's on the same page. Some of these topics are backed up by other topics of debate. I hear evolution supported all the time by carbon dating, and from what i hear that carbon dating is, it's very, very unreliable and location specific. Thismorning my dad proposed isotopic dating, which i find more flawed than carbon dating. I think that people just use such theories and debates to try to force culture to "evolve" at a quick rate without care of the side effects, as long as it appears that we're far from "the stone age." I'm sure we all can relate to this when we first were introduced to the mighty computer, now most of us probably see it only as a mear mess of wires and circuits that do really really simple calculations at a fast rate and eating up alot of energy. I think that alot of these people like to base theories on these "scientific facts" to help ensure that people beleive these "facts." I beleive this theory that we can accomplish infinit greatness in the universe is called "humanism" and it appears to drive alot of some one side or the other in these arguments.
Post 04 Jan 2007, 22:00
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2311
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
Everyone has opinions. It is easier to change yourself (not really easy, but anyways ...) than change someone else. They are not going to change. It is not my job to fix anyone.

If you don't like what you read here, you are probably best off just ignoring Heap from now on (since everything non-assembly related gets dumped there).

I'm not really for censorship, but there are limits to everyone's patience. I don't think it's really so bad right now. It's quite frustrating, honestly, when other online forums get too snippy and ban/threaten to ban everyone who says something indirectly annoying.

Please, do NOT imitate other forums who ban or lock every sensitive thread. But, keep in mind that some people who read this forum ain't really super old yet (kohlrak, although you're fairly smart, you're much younger than most here).

And yes, okay, amazing, America isn't perfect, but some of you here definitely overestimate our ability to control our leaders. They do what they want without our explicit approval. Don't watch so much Iraq news, it's depressing. It is out of all our hands. Mr. Bush couldn't give a crap what I think, and I definitely have no answers. Confused
Post 06 Jan 2007, 05:15
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
Quote:
Everyone has opinions. It is easier to change yourself (not really easy, but anyways ...) than change someone else. They are not going to change. It is not my job to fix anyone.


But by censorship you're not fixing anyone, and prevent the need to.

Quote:
I'm not really for censorship, but there are limits to everyone's patience. I don't think it's really so bad right now. It's quite frustrating, honestly, when other online forums get too snippy and ban/threaten to ban everyone who says something indirectly annoying.


That's the thing. I see that it's fine *NOW*. But as time goes on it'll be harder and harder to change the policy. And if you wait till it's needed (such as when the forums become highly populated, which could happen) and a major event occures, it'll be overwhelming for both the administration and the users to accept the change. I remember another site that this was seen. A community called gametalk. The moderators in most boards there like to wait till something bad happens, when it does, they change the rules and expect the users to accept. Typically, the users go out of their way to break the rule so the moderator gives in and gets rid of it, which is what usually happens there. The site administration has very little control, if any at all. Alot easier to propose rules to a handful of users than a large list of them. It's like raising a child, control in the earliest stages makes the later stages much, much easier to handle. It is clear, as my father has no problem with control over me, but i look at other people of my age (some in my own family) and they are not very kind to their parents. Gametalk and Emuparadise remind me of grown celebrities who care for nothing but themselves, and have been pampered all their lives.

Quote:
Please, do NOT imitate other forums who ban or lock every sensitive thread. But, keep in mind that some people who read this forum ain't really super old yet (kohlrak, although you're fairly smart, you're much younger than most here).


The question is what will happen when these young people (and i include adults that "never grew up" in this) become the mijority? This place hasn't been here to collect enough of such people. I have this gut feeling that programming in general will become more and more popular in the next few years, and that means more assembly programmers out of that bunch, as well. Maybe i'm wrong, but i have this feeling that in the years to come, flat assembler will receive alot more fresh young people, and this could cause some friction.

Quote:
And yes, okay, amazing, America isn't perfect, but some of you here definitely overestimate our ability to control our leaders. They do what they want without our explicit approval. Don't watch so much Iraq news, it's depressing. It is out of all our hands. Mr. Bush couldn't give a crap what I think, and I definitely have no answers.


Well on the iraq issue, mr bush isn't the one we would need to talk to. Irregardless, america is there now. It's too late. And these issues are more than just control of our leaders. Controling our leaders won't solve abortion, geneticly altered foods, environment, etc. Of course, we can sit and debate it, but it's unlikely we'll change anyone's mind for when election times come. And even then, canidates very seldom do what they advertise. Talking about most of these issues are rather pointless, aside from making yourself feel good that you're not the only person on your side of the argument.
Post 06 Jan 2007, 06:43
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WytRaven



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 45
Location: Canberra, Australia
The only time I see any point in locking a thread is if the discussion is looping; if the debate is becoming a repetition of the same arguments.

There a people on this board with whom I tend to clash (hi tom Razz), so what, there's nothing wrong with that. They express their opinions I express mine, they sling some mud, I sling some too. In the end other forum readers get a little entertainment and also get to see two or more individuals arguing their views with passion; it promotes informed decision making.

I note that although tom and I tend to clash (ok, more like I am oxygen to tom's napalm Twisted Evil) over matters of programming style I have found through some of the political and religious discussions of late that tom and I share similar beliefs in those areas. We can't all agree on everything but if you take the time to listen to others there's almost always common ground to be found (with the exception of the correct use of XOR of course Wink)

_________________
All your opcodes are belong to us
Post 12 Jan 2007, 09:13
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
WytRaven wrote:
We can't all agree on everything but if you take the time to listen to others there's almost always common ground to be found (with the exception of the correct use of XOR of course Wink

Amen.
In my opinion, the concept of "locking" a particular thread, or censorship in general, is alien to assembly language programming, though I confess, I am the worst offender in that regard, since I would prohibit use of XOR for anything other than a Boolean operation, i.e. I would be "locking", or more precisely, "blocking" use of that instruction for the casual use to which 99.99% of assembly language programmers employ it (clearing a register.)
When vid censored my submission on comparison of assemblers, I initially wondered what was accomplished by that action, however, I have subsequently come to appreciate that sometimes, as with pornography, one must "lock" a thread, or censor a submission, in order to maintain a proper sense of decorum. Evidently my "contribution" to the discussion of comparing assemblers was outside that boundary, and it was censored.
In my opinion, "locking" is much less productive than elaboration of our prejudices. I bet if one asks kohlrak, privately, whether or not he has come to learn something, reading the several worthwhile comments on this thread alone, directed towards his desire for censorship, he would indeed acknowledge having learned something of value from the very threads which he has complained about, in the past. We all learn from our mistakes, even an old guy like me, just one step away now, from the nursing home doors. Confused
Post 12 Jan 2007, 10:56
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