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vbVeryBeginner



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
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vbVeryBeginner
http://tinyurl.com/dapru wrote:
From an outburst of anger in suburban Paris housing projects, the violence has fanned out into a nationwide show of disdain for French authority from youths and minorities, most French-born children of Arab and black Africans angered by years of unequal opportunities.


anyone from france??
Post 06 Nov 2005, 20:24
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Remy Vincent



Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 155
Location: France
Remy Vincent
...Well it's not very easy to understand... Chinese governement always complain that we don't buy enough chinese bicycles, and french governement totally agree with them, but french governement haven't found yet a way to make french people buy chinese bicycles... so... french secret services (known as SDECE) secretly searched ideas, then they said to our french governement that they found a way, 100% working, to make french people buy chinese bicycles, and french governement said "- Each time chinese governement complains it hurts a lot all french people, because we respect chinese culture a lot, so please help our governement with your own methods, because unfortunatly we are not able to solve the problem with economical decisions"...

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Post 07 Nov 2005, 07:11
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gunblade



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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gunblade
I seen this whole thing on the news, i lived in france for the first 8 years of my life, sad to see the violence fanning out there. Happens all over the world though, just sad to see it in such a large scale in one country.

Whats this about bicycles? Neutral
Post 07 Nov 2005, 10:28
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vbVeryBeginner



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
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vbVeryBeginner
Rioting Spreads to 300 Towns in France
http://tinyurl.com/e3mr7

wats wrong ... hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a war..
Post 07 Nov 2005, 15:23
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flaith



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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flaith
gunblade wrote:
Whats this about bicycles? Neutral

Shocked don't really know !!!
vbVeryBeginner wrote:
whats wrong in France?

40 years of inefficient politicians !

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Last edited by flaith on 07 Nov 2005, 18:57; edited 1 time in total
Post 07 Nov 2005, 18:02
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BXM



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 26
Location: mars
BXM
A link to the editorial of the New York Sun, 4 november
http://www.nysun.com/article/22526
I share their american point of view although i was clearly against war in irak.
Civil war has begun.
Post 07 Nov 2005, 18:39
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vbVeryBeginner



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
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vbVeryBeginner
when people don't really understand the religion, they would do things according to their desire.

i just wanna shout, muslim is not like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post 07 Nov 2005, 22:54
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flaith



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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flaith
vbVeryBeginner wrote:
when people don't really understand the religion, they would do things according to their desire.

i just wanna shout, muslim is not like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


agreed !

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Post 08 Nov 2005, 06:06
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
vbVeryBeginner wrote:
when people don't really understand the religion, they would do things according to their desire.

i just wanna shout, muslim is not like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then dear colleague, I must emphatically deny your assertion. Actually, ISLAM is EXACTLY like this.
How do you suppose Christianity, Islam and Judaism spread?
Certainly not because of the superiority of their mythology.
The SWORD. Burning, KILLING. Believe in {Islam, Christianity, Judaism}, OR DIE.
Indonesia to North Africa. That's a great distance, thousands of kilometers--all covered with BLOOD. Think of Persia. For more than TWO THOUSAND YEARS, Persia was one of the most dominant countries in the world. Decimated by the Muslims. Today, the original religion, Zoroastrianism, is all but forgotten, destroyed by Islam. The Muslims DESTROYED not only the wonderful Buddhist caves in Afghanistan in our era, they destroyed the Buddha's library in India, in the 8th century. ISLAM IS INTOLERANT. READ THE QURAN. READ THE TORAH. It is right there in black and white.
It sickens me to read from the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims how peaceful, and loving, and kindhearted those religions "really" are. NONSENSE. The extermination of the North American "Indians" was affected by those Europeans, WHOSE DESCENDANTS TO THIS VERY DAY, including BUSH, still believe, that they are somehow acting in accord with "GOD'S INSTRUCTIONS". What rubbish. The Muslims who believe in the validity of the Quran, imagine, obviously FALSELY, that they are acting in accord with "GOD'S word", as they light fires in Paris, and elsewhere. From Indonesia, to North Africa, and everywhere in between, the same LACK OF RESPECT for scholarly, analytical, "scientific", empirical thinking, and rational analysis is CONDEMNED by the MUSLIMS as evidence of GODLESSNESS. If they could, Muslims would BURN everything NON-Muslim. Read the Quran. Go to ANY Muslim training school, and watch little children (males only!!!) 8,9, 10 years old, being indoctrinated, nodding their heads back and forth, LIKE ZOMBIES as they repeat ad infinatum, mumbo jumbo. Where do you suppose that behavior originates? Hint, it is not from Zoroastrianism. It is called: JUDAISM. Sad
Post 08 Nov 2005, 10:40
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BXM



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 26
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BXM
It's not a question of religion, but a question of ethics.
Only one category of immigrants is causing problems. Take Asiatics for example, strongly integrated, no problems.
That being said i doubt an ELF program could run properly on windows. And vice-versa.
Post 08 Nov 2005, 13:52
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ronware



Joined: 08 Jan 2004
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ronware
tom tobias wrote:
LIKE ZOMBIES as they repeat ad infinatum, mumbo jumbo. Where do you suppose that behavior originates? Hint, it is not from Zoroastrianism. It is called: JUDAISM. Sad

Interesting POV, tom - but incorrect. Judaism does not proselytize, nor is it based upon repeating without understanding. Being a practicing traditional Jew, I feel qualified to make those statements.
Post 08 Nov 2005, 17:43
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vbVeryBeginner



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vbVeryBeginner
tom tobias wrote:
The SWORD. Burning, KILLING. Believe in {Islam, Christianity, Judaism}, OR DIE.

that sentence is valid when prophet is around.
when doing such thing after prophet death, they need to bear the whole responsibilities for their action.
Post 08 Nov 2005, 22:27
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
ronware wrote:
... Judaism does not proselytize, nor is it based upon repeating without understanding. ...

Hmm, don't agree. I have met many (very nice people one and all) Jews, of Scandinavian origin, Chinese ethnicity, and Indian subcontinent origin. Looking at these people, one would have NO IDEA that they are members of the Hebrew tribe.
Of course, they are not. They are converts. If you mean, that Jews, in general, do not wave pamphlets around on the street corner, sure, ok, you are right. But, if you mean that there is no such thing as a PUBLIC presence to promote the ideas of Judaism, you are absolutely wrong, because I personally have ATTENDED such meetings. These meetings were intended to encourage public acceptance of Judaism. Surely you do not believe that the millions of Jews alive today on the planet Earth, are ALL descendants of the Hebrew tribe that inhabited Palestine more than 3000 years ago, and fought against the superior culture, their neighbors to the North, the Phoenicians, who gave the world our first alphabet. The warlike Hebrews, murdered entire populations of cities, according to the Torah, for failing to follow the superstitions of the Jews. So, yes, in that sense, I see your point. Jews did not necessarily PROSELYTIZE. They simply eliminated their neighbors, they did not insist on converting them, as did the EQUALLY INTOLERANT descendants of the Jewish faith: Christians, and then Muslims.
The question raised in this thread was this: How can one understand, rationally, as we would approach debugging some program using FASM, the terrible fires and burning in France?
If this were a software problem, we would attempt to identify variables, explain program control, and elicit a description from the architect, of the goals of each module, so that we might begin to both eliminate suspects involved with the problem, and identify areas in need of revision. Here, in this context, a social issue of some significance, the question arises: Can the country, renowned throughout the world as a MAJOR contributor to the world's finest art, architecture, music, literature, science, philosophy, and mathematics be held helpless by gangs of terrorists, acting in accord with their religious beliefs? In my opinion, EVERY country, large or small, will be held captive by religious fanatics, so long as religions are afforded a status of legitimacy. Religions, ALL of them, are anachronistic. They are akin to two children playing with a pair of tin cans, connected by a string, separated by 100 meters, pretending, and believing that they are actually using mobile telephones.
Religions demand obedience to the supernatural, in defiance of both logic and empathy. They demand sacrifice. They insist upon uniformity of thought. They require conformity of action. They seek to obtain for humans, what sparrows and starlings possess: group movement in complete synchrony. What religions CAN NOT DO, is explain ANYTHING, that deviates from examples not recorded in some ancient, "holy" text. The method of all religions is STATUS QUO PRESERVATION, not CHANGE. Finding a defect in a software program is not easy, but with a structured, methodical approach, one can EVENTUALLY discover the fault, and repair it. The same cannot be said of ANY religion. By definition, religions can not be repaired, because, by definition, they are perfect, having been created by a supernatural power that is perfect. They cannot be fixed. One must either believe in the religion, else die, by virtue of being a non-believer. For the Muslims, non-believers are BEHEADED. or burned. whatever works. Where did they LEARN that behaviour, Ron? Where did Mohammed turn, in seeking some guidance for his fellow Bedouins? Surely you recognize the same fairy tales printed in the Quran, found in both the Bible and the Torah, Mohammed's source texts (I believe the Quran was not written in Mohammed's lifetime, just as the new testament was not created until 40 years after the death of Jesus.)
If you genuinely believe that Jews do not proselytize, you can turn on the television any night of the week, and ask yourself this question: If Jews constitute 1% of the USA population, about the same quantity as aboriginal tribes people, "Indians", Why are there 100 times as many hours of television programming devoted to JEWISH sentiments, rituals, ceremonies, and temples, as for the culture and religious beliefs of the "Indians". Since the primary news media, and entertainment industries in USA are OWNED by Jews, managed by Jews, and run by Jews, naturally, they insert programming DESIGNED to protray the Jewish perspective, in essence TRAINING the 98% of the population neither Jewish, nor aboriginal peoples, to accept the Jewish religion as somehow bona fide. Personally, I would prefer to watch the aboriginal peoples' ceremonies, dance, costumes, rituals, and architecture. Intolerance is the key to understanding the fires of Paris set by the Muslims, and the slaughter of the Phoenicians by the Jews, the Muslim's intellectual antecedants. How did Judaism, Christianity, and Islam spread: by ritual, mindless repetition over and over again, of "prayers". All three religions have it. MINDLESSNESS. That's the key to understanding the violence in Paris.
Post 09 Nov 2005, 14:42
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
vbVeryBeginner wrote:
...
that sentence is valid when prophet is around.
when doing such thing after prophet death, they need to bear the whole responsibilities for their action.

Nonsense. Mohammed was nothing more than a tribal leader and military conqueror, in the same mold as Moses, David, Solomon, and many other famous Jewish tribal leaders. Calling Mohammed a prophet is not only disrespectful to the word, which implies education, something Mohammed lacked, but also demonstrates the complete absence of logic of ALL religious thinking:
A heinous act is despicable REGARDLESS of the human authority who orders its commission, whether it was some stupid IMAM ordering the arrest and incarceration of Avicenna, or the ignoramus who demanded destruction of the Library of Buddha's writings in India. NO. ABSOLUTELY NO. The validity of my quote DOES NOT DEPEND upon some religious zombie, calling himself the messiah, or prophet, or pope, or any other honorific title. "The world is too much with us."
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/wordsworth.html
Post 09 Nov 2005, 15:00
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RedGhost



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 444
Location: BC, Canada
RedGhost
I don't understand how any one can be a creationist, your whole faith and religion is based on one or more very old books, which are generally very inaccurately translated and changed over the years, most of the teachings/stories are far fetched and obviously fictional... I can use science to understand and study, and mathematics are directly intertwined, also I can't recall any wars started over science Razz

It's funny, 1000 or more years ago, you said GOD spoke to you, people followed you and considered you a prophet/messiah, today you say GOD tells you what to do, or you are the son of GOD or whatever, and people throw you in a mental hospital... the human race has evolved you see Very Happy

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Post 09 Nov 2005, 15:03
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ronware



Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 179
Location: Israel
ronware
tom tobias wrote:
ronware wrote:
... Judaism does not proselytize, nor is it based upon repeating without understanding. ...

Hmm, don't agree. I have met many (very nice people one and all) Jews, of Scandinavian origin, Chinese ethnicity, and Indian subcontinent origin. Looking at these people, one would have NO IDEA that they are members of the Hebrew tribe.
Of course, they are not. They are converts.

I have no intention of engaging in apologetics; I stand by my statement.

There are of course many people who became Jewish through conversion (Ruth, the grandmother of King David being one of the most famous). But the point is that we do not actively pursue converts - in fact, we discourage people from converting since it is better (from a Jewish legal standpoint) for a person to be a good Gentile than to be a bad Jew.

I don't know what public displays you attended, but they weren't *Jewish* ones, even if claimed to be so. They may have been the so-called "Jews for Jesus" a.k.a. "Messianic Jews", which is actually an arm of the Southern Baptist (Christian) Church.

Back to the events in France... they are quite easy to understand. Read the Qur'an and read Muslim writings about "Dar al Islam" vs. "Dar al Harb" and then it will be clear. You can even "Google" these terms.
Post 09 Nov 2005, 15:49
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ronware



Joined: 08 Jan 2004
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ronware
And concerning your assertion that "Jews control the media" you might like to read something other than neo-Nazi propaganda
Post 09 Nov 2005, 17:04
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
btw, i was on anti-nazi march today They killed one boy just because he had long hair and guitar.

About the jews, i believe they do control most of media, without any propaganda, it's my conclusion. How many times you've heard about 6 millions of jews killed by nazis? And how many times did you hear about 20 million slavs? just because the nazis were "evil" doesn't mean they weren't right about jews. It's just their style of life, or some thinking paradigm or what, gain as much power as you can. It's like this for centuries, they were always the one who owned shops and pubs and profited, while others were dying of hunger.
Post 09 Nov 2005, 20:52
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comrade



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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comrade
Nazis killed the boy because he had long hair and guitar?
Post 09 Nov 2005, 21:16
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ronware



Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 179
Location: Israel
ronware
vid wrote:
btw, i was on anti-nazi march today

Glad to hear you were on the march; sorry to hear about the boy.

Quote:
About the jews, i believe they do control most of media... It's like this for centuries, they were always the one who owned shops and pubs and profited, while others were dying of hunger.


<sigh>

I find it dismaying that people of high intelligence can believe such drivel. There are (at most) 15 million Jews in the world. The total global population is about 6 billion. That means Jews are 0.25% of the world population. That means in other words, only one person in 400 is Jewish. So how could they "own shops and profit while the others were dying"? And in your Eastern Europe, there are now almost no Jews at all ... so are the nonexistant Jews there still to blame for the region's problems?

Further, you are ascribing to all Jews what is essentially a European Jewish issue - which is that living in Christian Europe, they were forbidden from most professions (by law) and so ended up in a few that they were allowed to be in. In the Muslim world, while Jews were also treated similarly, the professions they were permitted were completely different.

Anyway, thank God for European anti-semitism. If it weren't for the pogroms of the late 1800's, my entire family would have been wiped out by Hitler (may his name be erased). As it is, they fled Europe to America and I'm able to live in relative peace.
Post 09 Nov 2005, 21:41
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