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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
I have a feeling that sleepsleep gonna love this thread Smile

So let's put aside all conspiracy theories, and still I have some questions about the official standpoint. Maybe someone has read about the Great Pyramid or been there, and knows more than me.

My concern is, that official theory about the King's Chamber just does not make sense. IMHO mainstream archeologists are selectively blind to some facts it seems. Here's what I know, and my thoughts:

1. all the other previous pyramids have their main chamber below ground level. The Great Pyramid also has a subterran chamber, yet it's said not to be the actual tomb. Because that one below isn't finished, one could conclude that the builders changed their minds, the actual tomb could be above and keeping the chamber below was kept to be a smokescreen. Like an extra measure against robbers or something, but still strange.

2. there's an Ascending Passage which leads to the King's Chamber. No other pyramid in Egypt has ascending passages, just descending ones. Why is this chamber so special (even for Egypt) that it has a so unique passage to it? Another extra measure against robbers?

3. there's absolutely no hieroglyphs in the chamber. All the other main chambers of all the other pyramids are full of writings telling stories about the pharaoh and his life. This one isn't. As a matter of fact not even the name of the pharaoh is written in the chamber, nor on the sarcophagus. Again, very strange, specially because other parts of the pyramid are full of writings, painted and crawled alike. If this is really a place for the pharaoh's earthly remains, then why is this King's Chamber so different to all the other pyramid's chambers that serve the same purpose?

4. the Relieving Chambers on top of the King's Chamber said to be to ease the pressure from above. This is plain bullshit. Why on earth would the upper most chamber need that? Why isn't there a similar structure on top of the Grand Gallery and the Queen's Chamber which are deeper, therefore have more stones above them? It's pretty obvious that if the Grand Gallery were collapsed, that would seriously cripple the shape of the pyramid which the builders would want to avoid at all costs. This suggests they were aware right from the beginning that the chamber's roofs will stand the weight of the pyramid, they wouldn't have build those that way in the first place. Regardless they put an extra 400 tons of solid stone on top of the King's Chamber to "relieve" the pressure? Makes no sense at all. I don't know the answer, but it is obvious to me that the mainstream scholar's theory is clearly nothing more than a bullshit.

5. put conspiracies aside, ancient civilizations had better understanging of the world than mainstream would ever admit. This is a fact, no questions about it. Just think of the Anthikythera mechanism or the Baghdad batteries. Both are true artifacts, not some rumours or fuzzy descriptions in some old scrolls. They are solid, material things you can hold in your hands, yet according to mainstream historicians they simply shouldn't exists.

6. the last part is the most interesting. I have heard a lot of esotheric mumbo-jumbo about pyramids storing mystic energies. So when I read that the King's Chamber is focusing radio waves I was naturally very-very sceptical. But it turned out that the original article was published in the Journal of Applied Physics, which I wouldn't characterise as a known hoax-source, conspiracy-theorist's magazine... It looks like the King's Chamber really does concentrate electromagnetic energy. Would that be a mere coincident? An unwanted side-effect? Considering all the things above, seems very unlikely. The chamber had to have some purpose, after all.

So what do you think? What was the real purpose of those chambers? And please, please don't say the pyramid was built by aliens or Atlantis-survivors. Please stick to the solid facts which has scientific proofs. Thanks!

Have fun,
bzt
Post 23 Dec 2018, 06:05
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16624
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Societies change. People change. Ideas change. The explanation could be as simple as there was a change in the society, or a change in the building ideas, and things worked out differently.
Post 23 Dec 2018, 06:22
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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bzt wrote:

I have a feeling that sleepsleep gonna love this thread

jackpot!,

i haven't got the opportunity to visit Egypt pyramid, but seeing them from jpg, they look really awesome and huge,

i am more interested to ponder what kind of mindset that actually clicked that conscious to build such thing,

let us assume there are only 3 mindset, 1st, with purpose, 2nd, without purpose (insane), 3rd, not belong to 1st and 2nd,

i look out right now, i saw street lamps, the design of each street lamp in this town probably a little bit different, but they serve a purpose, to light up the street during night,

the core functionality of that object,

but what is the core functionality of pyramid? to store some dead bodies?

let us assume, they believe, they could bring their fortunes, slaves etc into after life by having such grand tomb,

but what kind of logic that actually cause their leaders, kings to believe such ideas and spent so many hours and lives to realize such into existence?

now, unless the person who told them this is some sort of god, alien or etc that hold power, insightful and having great knowledge,

some entities that able to predict future, demo magical and unbelievable changes, in front of them,

do we believe something when we are desperate? like clueless, realize the incoming problems is greater than our capacity?

let say somebody able to bring earphone back to pharaoh age, and show him the capability to transfer sound into his ears, i guess, most likely that person is not far from god,

a lot of ideas in our days, is like god if we back thousand years ago,

now, what if, something one thousand years from now,

by having such ideas or items, i would believe, basically, one could control any government on earth,

idk if there is a limit in advancement, in fact, this is probably something great to ponder in sleepless night,

but to build something so huge, there got to have blueprints, lots of blueprints, numbers and calculation,

did they really use those hard to draw hieroglyphs in blueprints, i doubt, then what kind of writing they used?
Post 23 Dec 2018, 10:38
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7289
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I just want to drop in and say that I find the idea behind muon-based scan of Great Pyramid really brilliant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanpyramids
There is something about such "passive observation" methods that really fascinates me. Well, it is somewhat akin to tricks like uncovering the information processed by a computer just by analyzing incidental radiation it produces. Or that whole Meltdown/Spectre thing.
Post 23 Dec 2018, 11:45
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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Location: Did I forgot to take off the kettle again?
How did Sahara happen is more misterious, is it not?
Post 23 Dec 2018, 12:09
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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guignol wrote:
How did Sahara happen is more misterious, is it not?

Due to changing climate we may soon have an opportunity to observe new deserts forming here and there and this may give us a new insight into the origins of existing ones. Wink
Post 23 Dec 2018, 12:14
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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
@Tomasz: I agree! Btw the Great Void discovered by those muon-scans could be the answer why there's no Reliving Chambers above the Grand Gallery.

@guignol: not really. The climate change after the ice-age (which ended approx. 10000 years ago) is well studied and understood.
Post 23 Dec 2018, 15:08
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DimonSoft



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 532
Location: Belarus
Tomasz Grysztar wrote:
I just want to drop in and say that I find the idea behind muon-based scan of Great Pyramid really brilliant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanpyramids
There is something about such "passive observation" methods that really fascinates me. Well, it is somewhat akin to tricks like uncovering the information processed by a computer just by analyzing incidental radiation it produces. Or that whole Meltdown/Spectre thing.

So, they’ve found a serious security vulnerability in the pyramids’ implementation, right? Why there’re still no news titles like “Everything since the first days of humans is vulnerable. Except cookies baked by ABC company”. Oh, wait, turns out ABC cookies are also vulnerable. What? Turns out nobody succeeded stealing data from anybody except a few dolls made in the same laboratory? Sounds familiar… Smile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanpyramids wrote:
On November 2, 2017, the Egyptologist Zahi Hawass, who published few weeks before, with Mark Lehner his latest book, Giza and the Pyramids: A definitive history,[43] told the New York Times: “They found nothing...This paper offers nothing to Egyptology. Zero.”


Last edited by DimonSoft on 23 Dec 2018, 17:09; edited 1 time in total
Post 23 Dec 2018, 15:39
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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
sleepsleep wrote:

jackpot!,
Haha, I know you would like! Welcome! Smile

Quote:
i am more interested to ponder what kind of mindset that actually clicked that conscious to build such thing,
Why did the mayans build their pyramids? Why did medieval people build cathedrals? I think the answer is trivial and profound: some greedy bastards (usually priests) lied and made people believe that they will get closer to the God(s) / go to Heaven etc., and earned a lot of money in the meantime. For example, in the cathedral of Cologne it is said they have the bones of the three kings. No sane man would ever think that's true, yet millions of pilgrams leave lots of money there every year.

Quote:
let us assume there are only 3 mindset, 1st, with purpose, 2nd, without purpose (insane), 3rd, not belong to 1st and 2nd,
I don't understand these categories. Either you do something on purpose or not, there's no third way. What do you mean by that?
I don't think anybody can make the mass to do anything without a purpose, it's much more likely that the purpose they have been told is a lie.

Quote:
i look out right now, i saw street lamps, the design of each street lamp in this town probably a little bit different, but they serve a purpose, to light up the street during night,

the core functionality of that object,

but what is the core functionality of pyramid? to store some dead bodies?
Well, normally yes. I mean it's a well known fact with lots of evidence how the pyramid of Egypt evovled from the mastabas. What interesting is, the Great Pyramid is unlike the rest. It is outstanding in so many ways. Also when it was first opened around 900 AD, they've found absoultely nothing in it, not even marks that would suggest a former robbery.

Quote:
let us assume, they believe, they could bring their fortunes, slaves etc into after life by having such grand tomb,

but what kind of logic that actually cause their leaders, kings to believe such ideas and spent so many hours and lives to realize such into existence?
Imho the lies of the priests. Smile We are well aware that they lied to the common folk (their ruler being God and such), so why wouldn't they lie to the ruler too to influence his/her decisions for their benefit? I'm pretty sure just like these days, they made a fortune on those monumental constructions by abusing believers.

Quote:
now, unless the person who told them this is some sort of god, alien or etc that hold power, insightful and having great knowledge,

some entities that able to predict future, demo magical and unbelievable changes, in front of them,
Exactly. It's a well known fact that the priesthood kept knowledge in secret, and for example at once they were able to predict the solar eclipse and used that knowledge to make people believe they (the priests) possess magical powers by which they can darken the Sun. Thankfully people are getting smarter, today nobody would fall for that trick. Nowdays we have social media and fake news, and old time's priests are now called shareholders. The method did not change a bit.

Quote:
do we believe something when we are desperate? like clueless, realize the incoming problems is greater than our capacity?

let say somebody able to bring earphone back to pharaoh age, and show him the capability to transfer sound into his ears, i guess, most likely that person is not far from god,

a lot of ideas in our days, is like god if we back thousand years ago,
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Quote:
now, what if, something one thousand years from now,

by having such ideas or items, i would believe, basically, one could control any government on earth,

idk if there is a limit in advancement, in fact, this is probably something great to ponder in sleepless night,
You shouldn't worry about that. Humankind is not even advanced enough to qualify on the Kardashev-scale. Even if there's really a limit, there's still plenty of room to evolve and advance to Smile

Quote:
but to build something so huge, there got to have blueprints, lots of blueprints, numbers and calculation,

did they really use those hard to draw hieroglyphs in blueprints, i doubt, then what kind of writing they used?
The problem here is,
1) blueprints were written on papyrus scrolls, which was erroded and lost over the years for sure
2) if anybody had copied those blueprints, they were stored in the Library of Alexandria which were burnt down to the ground by fanatic christians. Only a small fraction of the ancient wisdom survived.
3) they were kept the blueprints (as any other knowledge) in secret so nobody were allowed to copy them in the first place (aka. compare this to the blueprints of the 11th or 12th century cathedarls that were kept in secret by Free Masons therefore lost and unknown to the public. I mean we don't have blueprints for the cathedral of Cologne either, yet nobody thinks that was build by aliens.)
4) we know their writing pretty well. This is not the same as the hieroglyphs, that were sacred and only used on ceremonial monuments and religious texts. The one priests and scripbers used for everyday documents is called hieratic and centuries later demotic.

Cheers,
bzt
Post 23 Dec 2018, 16:09
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 536
Location: Did I forgot to take off the kettle again?
How did kangaroo survive icy age?
Post 23 Dec 2018, 21:08
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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
guignol wrote:
How did kangaroo survive icy age?
Obviously stored the energy collected by the Great Pyramid in their pouch, and carried it for constant warmth. Razz

Cheers,
bzt
Post 24 Dec 2018, 02:50
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sleepsleep



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Using my phone to write,

Since everything started from mind, started from imagination,
Once a thousand years ago, before the pyramids were a realized object,
They are inside a conscious mind,

So when I pondered about building a pyramid, I was like back to thousand years ago, back to the mind of conscious who want to build a pyramid,

I was imagining about this earlier, the view of pyramid when you stand at the bottom, it becomes something of magnificent, and the reversed view when you at the top of pyramid,
Post 25 Dec 2018, 17:55
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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
More like five thousand years ago. But yeah, it must have been existed in a conscious mind first.
Post 26 Dec 2018, 02:10
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sleepsleep



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Image

imagine those eyes in the head of sphinx as a real-time cctv in ancient days, Laughing

why secrets, and what is secrets,

why the existence of secrets?
Post 01 Jan 2019, 23:01
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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
sleepsleep wrote:
why the existence of secrets?
Good question. IMHO it's a misbelief of a misguided mind. Yeah, maybe for short terms it could be benefitial for a small group in some cases, but it's always a losing path on the long run.

Anybody who have ever learned cryptography can tell you, that security by obscurity (aka. based on secrets) never works. We can see the rise of Open Source software and the fall of proprietary software (which have their source kept in secret). These days more machines are using OSS than all the other proprietary software together (supercomputers: 100% linux, servers >50% linux+bsds, handhelds >50% android, and those are just the operating systems). Technically over time, everywhere where a non-secret OSS alternative exists, they win. I believe the same stands for real-life secrets too.

According to my experience, all those who believe secrets are good are just hiding some lies or nasty things. So in 99% of the time keeping secrets = covering up some crimes. There's no reason for a honest and straightforward person to keep secrets, other than to protect themselves from the bad guys (the remaining 1%).

Huh, we have made a long way from the original can the pyramids really focus radiowaves or not question Smile

Cheers,
bzt
Post 02 Jan 2019, 19:24
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Ali.Z



Joined: 08 Jan 2018
Posts: 222
bzt wrote:
Huh, we have made a long way from the original can the pyramids really focus radiowaves or not question

interesting, but why not.

also another fact that i think of (sometimes) is:
there is some kind of relation between all these huge ancient architectures, maybe some sort of balancing of somehow.
as well as combination of knowledge in a strange way.

bzt wrote:
all those who believe secrets are good are just hiding some lies or nasty things.

well, it depends on what secrets they hold.
and not all of them hide lies or whatsoever.

_________________
Asm For Wise Humans
Post 02 Jan 2019, 22:03
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1420
bzt wrote:
According to my experience, all those who believe secrets are good are just hiding some lies or nasty things.
Why don't you start by giving out your email view access to anybody?

bzt wrote:
So in 99% of the time keeping secrets = covering up some crimes. There's no reason for a honest and straightforward person to keep secrets, other than to protect themselves from the bad guys (the remaining 1%).
I'm not going into the obvious reasons why this is just wrong. Fact is, what you or the majority find "nasty" or "morally wrong" is not what everyone else does.

If anything secrets exist to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
Post 02 Jan 2019, 22:16
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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Ali.A wrote:
and not all of them hide lies or whatsoever.
Yeah, that's the 1% I wrote. This does not change the fact that most of the time secrets are covering up lies.

Furs wrote:
Why don't you start by giving out your email view access to anybody?
I wasn't talking about privacy (secrets != privacy, the relation is more like inclusive between the two). But since you asked, I don't make my emails public because of the 1% I wrote (protecting myself from the bad guys). Unfortunately I have experienced from first hand how it's like when criminals get access to your email account.

Furs wrote:
Fact is, what you or the majority find "nasty" or "morally wrong" is not what everyone else does.
Exactly, those "nasty" things are not done by everyone, only by a small minority who are keeping secrets. Fact is, what I and the majority find morally wrong is actually considered to be a crime. For example corruption is a crime in every lawbooks in every countries of Earth. Selling people's private profiles to third parties (especially without their consent) is not just morally wrong, but it's against the law. Faking false articles on how cigarettes are not causing cancer is not just morally wrong, but a deception of customers which is a crime. Similarly offering loans to the masses for huge unpayable percentage and for which you don't have reserve, is not just morally wrong, but is usury which is a crime (the fact that banks have enough money to bribe judges does not mean it's legal what they do). Keeping astronomy in secret and lying about hiding the Sun to force slavery on the people is not just morally wrong, but a crime against humanity (according to the Universal Declarations of Human Rights). Telling people a lie that they will go to Heaven if they particiate in a crusade and kill pagans in piles, is not just morally wrong, but considered to be a warcrime. Should I continue the list? I have countless examples from the history and from recent days where secrets of the minority were used to cover up some sort of crimes against the majority. The list just goes on and on...

Furs wrote:
If anything secrets exist to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
This is a huge bullshit (no offense). There's no such thing "tyranny of the majority". Seriously you should educate yourself (a friendly advice). There's only tyranny of the minority (see definition of tyranny on wikipedia). Secrets are protecting that minority, which means it's bad for the majority. For your education, when the majority has the power that's called democracy, not tyranny. BTW there's no true democracy today, what we have is an oligarchy (if you don't believe me, read a bit more on the topic). According to Plato, oligarchy leads straight to tyranny, and history has proven many many times that he is right. All historitians agree on that.

And why on Earth should we protect the minority??? If they are not abusing their powers rather serving the community well, then why do they need protection in the first place??? The sake of the human spieces demands to protect the majority! And indeed, if anything that history has tought us is that all attempts to protect an abusive minority ALWAYS ends in the demise of the ruler class (see Teotichuacan, Melid, Ancient Athen, French revolution, etc. etc. etc.) As a contrast, the majority (farmers, craftsmen, middle-class workers) have survived the falls of all goverment forms in the last 10 thousand years. It is thanks to them, not to the so called "elite" that humankind is still alive.

Cheers,
bzt
Post 03 Jan 2019, 13:44
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bzt



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Ali.A wrote:
there is some kind of relation between all these huge ancient architectures, maybe some sort of balancing of somehow.
as well as combination of knowledge in a strange way.

Yeah, so true. Just imagine how civilisation would look like if all that knowledge and manpower throughout history were used to create something for all the community. How far could we have gone with that?

I mean a big tomb serves only one person and other than being a touristattractor, it does not benefit the people. How different that was, when they used those engineering skills and manpower to build the Dump of Assuan? Another good example is the Great Wall of China. It did serve all the people of China (protecting them from the hordes from the North). Or the sophisticated irrigation systems in Kambodia, which made it possible to produce tripple the quantity of rice? How great humanity could be if all the power that have been used to build those useless ancient monuments were used to built something purposeful for the benefit of all the people? I'm sure we would already have colonies on Mars by now.

Cheers,
bzt
Post 03 Jan 2019, 14:12
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Tomasz Grysztar
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Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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bzt wrote:
There's no such thing "tyranny of the majority". Seriously you should educate yourself (a friendly advice). There's only tyranny of the minority (see definition of tyranny on wikipedia).
This is a bold claim to make, especially since you mention Wikipedia. The phrase "tyranny of the majority" describes, in particular, circumstances that led to several slaughters of thousands or even millions of people. Whether this is really a form of "tyranny" as defined in some other place is irrelevant, IMHO - sometimes a phrase may have a different meaning that just a combination of its components (see Guinea pig for an extreme example).
Post 03 Jan 2019, 14:22
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