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flat assembler > Heap > german wikipedia article about fasm

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_shura



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 60
german wikipedia article about fasm
somebody want to delete the fasm article in the german wikipedia due to irrelevance, so if someone think he/she could improve this article, should do it now. I do not personally have a problem with not having an article, but I do not like the practice of deleting articles due to irrelevance as the only reason.
Post 28 Oct 2017, 12:00
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 868
People actually use non-english wikipedia? Razz
Post 28 Oct 2017, 13:48
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua

Furs wrote:
People actually use non-english wikipedia? Razz

You mean there really is a non-English WP? Question
Post 28 Oct 2017, 13:52
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 6633
Location: Kraków, Poland
The English Wikipedia article about FASM also could use a bit of improvement. If it was well-written, one could try improving versions in other languages simply through translation, but as it is now, it is not a very good starting point.

I keep my hands off the article, to avoid any conflict of interest accusations. But I sometimes do work on other ones, like recently when I tried to improve the article on Unreal mode. Anyone that would like to discuss such matters with me, I invite to the fasm's Discord channnel.
Post 28 Oct 2017, 15:07
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_shura



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 60
Conflict of interests is ok, as long you make it clear, that you are the author and everyone could transparently see that.

How many users has fasm/fasmg (downloads/active forum-members)? Where is fasm in use (except for ›irrelevant‹ things like MenuetOS, KolibriOS, BlitzMax, PureBasic <- actually, nobody use this either, but nobody want to delete this articles in the wikipedia)?
Post 28 Oct 2017, 16:01
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 6633
Location: Kraków, Poland

_shura wrote:
Conflict of interests is ok, as long you make it clear, that you are the author and everyone could transparently see that.

They strongly discourage any direct edits by anyone with potential conflict of interest.


_shura wrote:
How many users has fasm/fasmg (downloads/active forum-members)?

This month, fasm has around 1000 downloads daily while fasmg around 30. The numbers are quite stable from day to day. As for the forum members, I don't know, the forums are not very active nowadays, there are people that post once in a month or so.


_shura wrote:
Where is fasm in use (except for ›irrelevant‹ things like MenuetOS, KolibriOS, BlitzMax, PureBasic <- actually, nobody use this either, but nobody want to delete this articles in the wikipedia)?

You could look for projects that openly reference fasm in places like GitHub (even searching for fasmg gives some results there). Or perhaps look at the fasm-related questions on Stack Overflow, etc. - this may give a hint on fasm's usage in the wild. The commercial programs that made use of fasm may not always be open about it.
Post 28 Oct 2017, 16:37
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zhak



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 479
Location: Belarus
I guess one of the reasons why fasm is not super-popular is college study, where teachers stick to MASM and NASM. Starting learning assembly people use suggested tools. Only the ones who stay in the field may start seeking something better on their journey. But I may be wrong
Post 29 Oct 2017, 10:02
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
Perhaps because fasm is written in assembly, so not portable, and the whole world¹ only likes portable code.

¹ Not really the whole world, but certainly portable code is generally considered more teachable than non-portable code.
Post 29 Oct 2017, 10:14
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 868
But it is portable to all major OSes. Oh you mean architecture...

...as if other architectures other than x86 matter. Razz
Post 29 Oct 2017, 13:06
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua

Furs wrote:
But it is portable to all major OSes. Oh you mean architecture...

...as if other architectures other than x86 matter. Razz

The HLL folk would like to be able to assemble x86 code on their SPARC workstations, of course, so all assemblers must be written in a portable language, or course. Wink
Post 29 Oct 2017, 13:22
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_shura



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 60
well, you could write jvm-assembly with fasmg Razz
Post 29 Oct 2017, 14:04
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 6633
Location: Kraków, Poland

zhak wrote:
I guess one of the reasons why fasm is not super-popular is college study, where teachers stick to MASM and NASM. Starting learning assembly people use suggested tools. Only the ones who stay in the field may start seeking something better on their journey. But I may be wrong

It may depend on a location, I have been occasionally asked for a permission to use fasm in college courses, so there are places where it is used educationally - there probably are others that never contacted me (asking for a permission is not really an usual thing to do in such case).

I also know that some courses use emu8086 package, which in turn contains fasm. I sometimes receive mistaken e-mails concerning educational emu8086 usage, probably because they read fasm's license contained within the package and assume that I am the author.
Post 29 Oct 2017, 17:25
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_shura



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 60
does not the licence allow the use of fasm for any, including educational purposes without asking for permission?
Post 29 Oct 2017, 20:34
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 6633
Location: Kraków, Poland

_shura wrote:
does not the licence allow the use of fasm for any, including educational purposes without asking for permission?

Yes, that's why I noted that these cases are not really representative. I have no idea how many teachers may be out there that used fasm in their courses, I know only these unusual few that contacted me for some reason.
Post 29 Oct 2017, 22:07
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DimonSoft



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 83
Location: Belarus
<OffTop>
The biggest problem with teaching assembly as I see it is that most teachers don’t use assembly for anything except teaching, so they use arbitrary stuff that has a lot of horrible books written about it. And, as most students are not supposed to use assembly for earning their lives these days (“C# would be enough for everyone”), they end up using the same tools and some of them occasionally become teachers.

I’ve been using FASM for teaching assembly since 2014, then had to skip a year due to health problems. And you know what? They taught them a mixture of C and assembly, of real and protected mode, etc. The students have heard a lot of irrelevant stuff, but didn’t get any information even about calling conventions, not mentioning anything more serious.

Sorry, felt a strong need to complain.
</OffTop>
Post 30 Oct 2017, 07:13
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