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flat assembler > Heap > Linux hardware advice: What to buy?

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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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saw that article too in hackernews, i think,
when you need a knife to cut apart that laptop, you know, this laptop is totally screwed up, bad design, bad architecture, wth they produced such goods??

and they are not cheap, Laughing
maybe in 2020 only they start produce modular laptop, those that could last 50 years at the minimum, should be a minimum requirement set by government if you want to sell laptop in this country,
Post 18 Jun 2017, 12:42
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

sleepsleep wrote:
and they are not cheap, Laughing

Exactly.

To me, it does not make sense to buy a high-end / top-of-the-line laptop and expect it to last over a decade. Tech is just evolving too rapidly.

Wink
Post 19 Jun 2017, 02:04
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2124
Location: Usono (aka, USA)

YONG wrote:

To me, it does not make sense to buy a high-end / top-of-the-line laptop and expect it to last over a decade. Tech is just evolving too rapidly.



I don't know. "Evolve" is probably too strong a word. It's more like minor enhancements at this point. Sure, maybe in twenty years, things will be different. But I think we've already "evolved" as much as we're going to do (for the next few years, at least). Incremental updates is all we can expect. But maybe I'm naive.


rugxulo wrote:
Furs, you reminded me of this (although I've never seen, used, nor owned one ... sadly!): Poqet PC (circa 1989). I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't know what to do with it!



No joke, some guy on the DJGPP newsgroup was recently trying to use Emacs 24.5 on his HP Omnibook 300 (which, in case you didn't know, as I didn't, it first came out in 1993 with only 2 MB of RAM). They don't make 'em like they used to! Laughing
Post 29 Jun 2017, 01:38
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2124
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
BTW, Phoronix is having its 2017 Linux Laptop Survey (which I haven't read yet), going on until roughly July 6th. Maybe some useful info (for revolution's needs) will come from that??
Post 29 Jun 2017, 01:42
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

rugxulo wrote:

YONG wrote:
To me, it does not make sense to buy a high-end / top-of-the-line laptop and expect it to last over a decade. Tech is just evolving too rapidly.

I don't know. "Evolve" is probably too strong a word. It's more like minor enhancements at this point.

For a diehard believer like you, the word "evolve" is always too strong; for an atheist like me, the word "evolve" comes naturally.

I always draw my conclusions based on facts -- verifiable evidence, to be precise.

Let's compare two inexpensive processors for entry-level laptops:

Intel N3530 (02/2014)
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Pentium-N3530-Notebook-Processor.112091.0.html

Intel N3450 (09/2016)
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Celeron-N3450-Notebook-Processor.182737.0.html

In just two and a half years, tech advancement has given rise to:

(i) 15 to 20% increase in processing power, and
(ii) 20% decrease in energy consumption.

Other things being practically equal, the selling price of an entry-level laptop with the new processor is considerably lower than that with the old processor. (But that is the general trend of tech products.)

Minor enhancements? I don't think so.

Wink
Post 29 Jun 2017, 04:33
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 889
Actually yeah, it's minor. 20% increase when you spend double? (old + new cost, assuming both cost equally at time of purchase)

You'd have to spend 1/5 of the old CPU on the new laptop to even break even. (and that's only considering the CPU!)
Post 29 Jun 2017, 12:03
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15299
Location: Bigweld Industries

rugxulo wrote:
BTW, Phoronix is having its 2017 Linux Laptop Survey (which I haven't read yet), going on until roughly July 6th. Maybe some useful info (for revolution's needs) will come from that??

The first page of comments that is displayed without requiring JS gives a few hints already about what not to buy. Wink
Post 29 Jun 2017, 12:12
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Furs wrote:
Actually yeah, it's minor. 20% increase when you spend double? (old + new cost, assuming both cost equally at time of purchase)

You'd have to spend 1/5 of the old CPU on the new laptop to even break even. (and that's only considering the CPU!)

Let's not forget the environmental cost of producing an entire second system. Does the potential 20% saving of usage energy over its expected short lifetime of 2 years compensate for the huge upfront production requirement?
Post 29 Jun 2017, 12:14
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

Furs wrote:
20% increase when you spend double? (old + new cost, assuming both cost equally at time of purchase)

Did I even mention the word "purchase"?

By comparing two entry-level processors, I showed that tech advancement (within two years or so) could give rise to 20% increase in processing power plus 20% decrease in energy consumption AND also keep the price down.

I just could not follow your "unconventional" logic.

Confused
Post 29 Jun 2017, 13:31
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

revolution wrote:
Does the potential 20% saving of usage energy over its expected short lifetime of 2 years compensate for the huge upfront production requirement?

The same "unconventional" logic shows up here.

Did I even mention that the lifespan of such a laptop was 2 years?

Confused
Post 29 Jun 2017, 13:35
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 889

YONG wrote:
Did I even mention the word "purchase"?

Uhm, yes? See:

YONG wrote:
To me, it does not make sense to buy a high-end / top-of-the-line laptop and expect it to last over a decade. Tech is just evolving too rapidly.

in fact that quote was even in your post (as you replied to rugxulo about it) so obviously was the context. Besides this whole thread is about buying laptops isn't it? Wink
Post 29 Jun 2017, 13:42
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15299
Location: Bigweld Industries

YONG wrote:
Did I even mention that the lifespan of such a laptop was 2 years?

It is implied by the 2 year time span for the comparison CPUs you mentioned. Suggesting it is far enough "evolved" to be worthy of serious consideration for upgrading.
Post 29 Jun 2017, 14:14
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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so improvement without changes is new logic? Laughing Embarassed

btw, refurbished laptop, those with 1st gen i3, i5, or i7, and you add ssd to it, they are actually very suitable for daily use, except the battery part,

there should be a external battery pack, maybe size like a rubic cube that recharge itself, allow you to power for 5 hours, Embarassed i wish they invent such object,

ps: found this
This Cell Phone Can Make Calls Even Without a Battery
https://www.wired.com/story/this-cell-phone-can-make-calls-even-without-a-battery

this should be where we are heading for laptop, Wink


Last edited by sleepsleep on 29 Jun 2017, 15:54; edited 1 time in total
Post 29 Jun 2017, 15:47
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15299
Location: Bigweld Industries

sleepsleep wrote:
btw, refurbished laptop, those with 1st gen i3, i5, or i7, and you add ssd to it, they are actually very suitable for daily use, except the battery part,

A low end i3 is usually plenty for most casual usage. But the SSD is not for me. I need more space than any SSD can provide.

sleepsleep wrote:
there should be a external battery pack, maybe size like a rubic cube that recharge itself, allow you to power for 5 hours, Embarassed i wish they invent such object,

You mean like how smartphones are sold looking nice and slim and light, and then people buy a large heavy bulky "power bank" so they can actually use their phone for more than a short time. That is just dumb IMO. So a "power bank" for laptops, well they do exist, but they are awful and annoying.
Post 29 Jun 2017, 15:54
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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well power bank couldn't recharge it self automatically, we need something that could recharge itself without plugging in any power, Embarassed

i think power bank is a smart idea, a good concept, Laughing you could charging 3 cycles your smartphone, which is actually very good, especially when you go camping or places that lack electricity,
Post 29 Jun 2017, 15:57
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sleepsleep



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revolution wrote:

I need more space than any SSD can provide.


i don't believe you, unless you could reply what actually the stuffs you are storing Wink
Post 29 Jun 2017, 15:59
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15299
Location: Bigweld Industries

sleepsleep wrote:
well power bank couldn't recharge it self automatically, we need something that could recharge itself without plugging in any power, Embarassed

There is no proof or evidence of such a thing. But sure, IF it was, then great. But not today.

sleepsleep wrote:
i think power bank is a smart idea, a good concept, Laughing you could charging 3 cycles your smartphone, which is actually very good, especially when you go camping or places that lack electricity,

You go camping and 1) take your phone? and 2) expect to receive signal?

But I've never seen anyone use that a a reason for a powerbank. I always see them in a office, or restaurant, or in public places, with their phone permanently plugged into the power bank. If you're gonna need more energy storage then why not just make the phone bigger? Actually I know the answer: Marketing. Larger/thicker/heavier phones are not sexy. But they are what people end up with by proxy anyway.
Post 29 Jun 2017, 16:03
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15299
Location: Bigweld Industries

sleepsleep wrote:
i don't believe you, unless you could reply what actually the stuffs you are storing Wink

Sorry, I don't feel any need to justify my storage requirements. I deal with large files, so what. Not everyone does, and great for them, they can use a 1GB SSD or something. But I can't. Sucks to be me I guess. Sad
Post 29 Jun 2017, 16:07
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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revolution wrote:

You go camping and 1) take your phone? and 2) expect to receive signal?


you probably forget, smartphone has many features, apart from calling Laughing
games, taking photos, videos, notepad, etc
btw, gsm coverage is pretty much overall nowadays, you could make calls without issues,

well, nobody get to decide how many mAh battery each smartphone manufacturers will use, nobody, except those who work for that manufacturers, and probably the boss and bosses,

we as the final consumers, only see, choose, decide which model suit us, pay and use, Embarassed


revolution wrote:

Larger/thicker/heavier phones are not sexy


once upon a time, these are popular on earth, only the rich could buy, brick sized mobile, i saw from old movies, they are one set in a suitcase, Laughing they are very sexy at that time,
Post 29 Jun 2017, 16:14
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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revolution wrote:
Sorry, I don't feel any need to justify my storage requirements. I deal with large files, so what. Not everyone does, and great for them, they can use a 1GB SSD or something. But I can't. Sucks to be me I guess. Sad


no worry, nothing wrong with needing giant spaces to store tons of files, i use 2 external hard disks to store movies, songs, animes too, Laughing

i am aware, you are storing professional stuffs, unlike me, Embarassed Embarassed

http://www.computershopper.com/feature/2017-guide-the-best-cheap-ssds

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/storage-ssd-mx300
2tb ssd,
USD 549.99
https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX300-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B01KKZLX46

the biggest one according to google is 60tb seagate
Post 29 Jun 2017, 16:26
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