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 flat assembler > Heap > thought experiment : should move perpetually Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
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sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 7334
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the ball (something heavy inside with some air)
the ball should heavier than the water

the tube filled with little bit of water / liquid

hang it, the ring will get tilted, and the ball should keep on moving,
when the ball moves, the water moves,
when the water moves, the ball moves,

the spring are there to balance back but it is not possible to balance

since the ball is heavier and with air, it can't drop into bottom most of the water,
means, the water will move since we made the ball heavier than water,

i think, it will just keeps on moving.
11 Jan 2016, 00:16
revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15870
Location: 162173 Ryugu
Convert it from a thought experiment to a physical experiment and report back with your results.

But remember that the laws of thermodynamics will always be there.
11 Jan 2016, 05:59
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 7334
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thanks revolution,
i would love and glad if you could comment how it wouldn't works or works, you are like phage in ats forum =)

my guess is, it will keeps on moving because of gravity.

- ball is heavy, will try to get in center.

- but air inside ball prevent heavy ball get in center

- but due to gravity, ball must get into center

- ball can't stops trying since gravity keeps on pulling, get to bottom if heavy.

- light air inside ball said i will float above water

plan to use a cooking wok and experiment it

need a "perfect" amount of heavy ball + amount of water + amount of air inside that ball.

if i hang the wok, wok will gets tilted to fit heavy ball, but when water move to balance heavy ball, light air will gets push and cause heavy ball to move,

heavy ball moves, water moves,
water moves, heavy ball moves.

maybe that is why earth is tilted.
11 Jan 2016, 07:19
revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15870
Location: 162173 Ryugu
It is very simple to explain. There is no such thing as perpetual motion due the the laws of physics.

However, if you think you have found some sort of loophole then please go right ahead and prove it. You will be famous if you can make it "work" the way you explain.
11 Jan 2016, 07:24
idle

Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 351
Location: ukraina
i'm afraid after the balls down - those are to rise up _somehow_ through the water/liquid impulses form left and right originated by the tilt
11 Jan 2016, 18:26
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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left white is human lifting a weight
right black is a statue lifting a weight

human could feel how that weight draining his energy,

human could feel how much "energy" you need to keep on giving to carry that weight on top.

statue if build using soft material couldn't carry that weight

statue if build using hard material could carry that weight

does statue produce energy to carry that weight?
11 Jan 2016, 23:09
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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i need more time to figure out how to make it works.
12 Jan 2016, 00:39
revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15870
Location: 162173 Ryugu
If a human could lock their joints then it would take no energy to keep the weight above the floor. The only reason humans "feel energy usage" is because of the way the skeleton and muscles work.
13 Jan 2016, 04:59
YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
revolution wrote:
The only reason humans "feel energy usage" is because of the way the skeleton and muscles work.
Better write:
The only reason ... is that ...

Or rephrase the sentence like:
The way the skeleton and muscles work makes humans feel ...

13 Jan 2016, 05:10
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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yah, thanks revolution & yong
i think like a human robot, if they got lock joints, they will not use any energy to keep the load put on top of them,

lifting up / down will require some energy to release the lock and lock back,

maybe thats why meditation usually sits still and lock all joints,
13 Jan 2016, 07:29
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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we got chained ping pong ball,
the ping pong balls from water level A to B logically will be less than ping pong balls from B to water level through route C.

balls want to move upward from B to A and from B through C.

i predict balls from B -> C route will win since they got more balls, =D

and since each ping pong balls are chained together, means, they will move perpetually.
balls should have no problem to dip into water since we got more balls through B C route.
24 Jan 2016, 00:36
revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15870
Location: 162173 Ryugu
Make one and report back with your experiment results.
24 Jan 2016, 02:49
rocketsoft

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 171
A tornado is capable of perpetual motion, just look at jupiter and the electron!
16 Feb 2016, 00:52
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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patented and will move perpetual and forever, might need brake!

white ball equal concealed ball filled with light gas helium or anything else,

liquid could be water or oil or whatever,
10 Jan 2017, 12:17
edfed

Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4160
Location: 2018
human need energy cause it is articulated and theses articulations needs energy to hold theirs positions, using a force opposite to the force applied by the weight.

now, why the hard statue don't need energy? cause it still have the needed force to counter the weight.

force is not energy.
a material have a force, and don't have "energy", in fact, it don't have dynamic energy, and have a lot of static energy called molecular interraction.
means, at the molecular level, the force between atoms is really high.
10 Jan 2017, 12:32
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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thanks edfed, i will try to understand more about what you mentioned,

i could pondering the whole day thinking what is force, what is energy, gravity, love living, breathing and processing,
12 Jan 2017, 09:58
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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ok, new idea,

this one should create motion in water perpetual,

28 Apr 2017, 17:10
revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15870
Location: 162173 Ryugu
Make one and report back with your experiment results.
28 Apr 2017, 17:17
YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
sleepsleep wrote:
ok, new idea,

this one should create motion in water perpetual,
Wow, that is a great idea. And Yes, the bottle with a small magnet attached is going to keep moving up (due to water buoyancy, magnetic repulsion, tension in the string) and down (due to gravity) perpetually. We can make use of the changing magnetic field by putting a copper coil around the beaker, through which an induced current will flow.

What a brilliant discovery!

(I ignored frictional forces, fluid dynamics of water, back emf, degradation of flux density over time, and the like.)

29 Apr 2017, 02:29
sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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idk much of the terms you mentioned, YONG, sorry,

but there should be ways to make chaos inside and cause motion, i guess,
29 Apr 2017, 06:47
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