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flat assembler > Heap > EmDrive (also RF resonant cavity thruster)

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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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EmDrive (also RF resonant cavity thruster)
http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/30/8521691/nasa-seemingly-impossible-space-drive-test-succeeds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive


Quote:

A group of NASA scientists have been working on a potentially revolutionary space engine that doesn't require rocket fuel and could make a trip to Mars in just 10 weeks. Or, they could be looking at a scientific error in violation of one of classical physics' core rules. They've been trying to figure out which it is for months, and now newly released test results are ruling out the prevailing hypothesis for why what they're looking at is an error, according to NASASpaceflight. In a thorough breakdown of the new engine, called an EM Drive, NASASpaceflight calls these recent tests a major breakthrough in NASA's research.



exciting times

if i make a water bubble in vacuum, then i put a gold fish inside the bubble,
if the fish moves, would the bubble moves? i guess the bubble will moves.
Post 04 May 2015, 22:39
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Whatever happened to "conservation of momentum"?
Post 04 May 2015, 23:48
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
And it appears to also break the first law of thermodynamics.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1506.00494 wrote:
A "space drive" is a hypothetical device that generates a propulsive force in free space using an input of power without the need for a reaction mass. Any device that generates photons (e.g., a laser) would qualify as a propellantless "photon rocket," but the force generated by emitting photons per power input (3.33 $\mu$N/kW) is too small to be a practical propulsion device. The ability to generate greater force per power input would be highly desirable, but, as demonstrated in this paper, such a device would be able to operate as a perpetual motion machine of the first kind. Since applying a constant force results in a constant acceleration, the kinetic energy of a mass driven by such a device increases quadratically with time, while the energy input increases only linearly with time. Thus, at some point, the kinetic energy of the device-driven mass exceeds the energy input, and if this energy is collected via decelerating the mass (via regenerative electromagnetic braking, for example), then there would be a net gain in energy. For devices with thrust-to-power ratios on the order of 1 N/kW that have been discussed recently in connection with the so-called EM drive, this breakeven occurs at velocities low enough to be feasible with current technology, clearly demonstrating the absurdity of such a device. When relativistic effects are taken into account, it is shown that the photon rocket can only reach energy breakeven as the accelerated mass asymptotically approaches the speed of light. Thus, any device with a thrust-to-power ratio greater than the photon rocket would be able to operate as a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, and thus should be excluded by the First Law of Thermodynamics.

Post 07 Jun 2015, 09:33
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sleepsleep



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Full interview: Roger Shawyer, Creator of EmDrive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hTdSg47h3k

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/emdrive-dr-martin-tajmar-generates-thrust-test-controversial-space-propulsion-technology-1513151


Quote:
German professor Dr Martin Tajmar has presented results on experiments conducted with the controversial electromagnetic space propulsion technology EmDrive that he claims shows the theoretical technology generated thrust.

The key figure in the discussion of this theoretical technology is British scientist Roger Shawyer, who devised the EmDrive concept and first presented it in 1999, but spent years having his technology ridiculed by the international space science research community.

Post 29 Jul 2015, 18:43
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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So EmDrive only has to break a few laws of physics to work. Good luck with that.
Post 30 Jul 2015, 02:17
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
http://phys.org/news/2015-07-scientists-havent-impossible-space.html

Quote:
Straightaway, there are problems with this experiment. The abstract states: "Our test campaign cannot confirm or refute the claims of the EMDrive." Then, a careful reading of the paper reveals this observation: "The control experiment actually gave the biggest thrust … We were really puzzled by this large thrust from our control experiment where we expected to measure zero."Yes, the control experiment designed not to generate any thrust still measures a thrust. Then there's the peculiar gradual way the thrust seems to turn on and off that looks suspiciously like a thermal effect, and then there are acknowledged heating problems. All this leads to the conclusion stated in the paper that "such a set-up does not seem to be able to adequately measure precise thrusts." Similar problems were seen by the Eagleworks group, with thrust also mysteriously appearing in their control test.Taken together, these results strongly suggest that the measured signatures of thrust are subtle experimental errors. Possible sources include thermal effects, problems with magnetic shielding or even a non-uniform gravitational field in the laboratory leading to erroneous force measurements. As a comparison, the force measured in this latest experiment is roughly comparable to the gravitational attraction between two average-sized people (100kg) standing about 15cm apart. It is an extremely small force.That the experiments detect a measureable thrust is undeniable. Where the thrust comes from, whether it is real or erroneous, is inconclusive. That the experiments in any way confirm the EMDrive works is a falsehood. This was noted by Tajmar himself, who told the International Business Times "I believe there is no real news here yet."The experimental scientists involved have done their jobs to the best of their ability, having tested a hypothesis – albeit a spectacularly unlikely one – and reported their results. These scientists aren't actually claiming to have invented a warp drive or to have broken the laws of physics. All they're saying at the moment is that they've found something odd and unexplained that might be something new but is likely an experimental artefact that needs further study. The panoply of clickbait headlines and poorly researched articles on the topic are doing something of a disservice to their scientific integrity by claiming otherwise.

Post 31 Jul 2015, 11:19
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sleepsleep



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some update from

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38577.msg1440938#msg1440938


Quote:
And yet the anomalous thrust signals remain...

Post 10 Nov 2015, 02:23
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
Post 27 Sep 2017, 19:28
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sleepsleep



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Image
i have zero idea how this gonna not in motion forever,

same magnet pole repels, but gravity (assume it exists) trying to bring back the whatever hanging stuffs into balance,

we could actually add more magnets on the surround, but it is no point if people dont understand this simple stuff, Laughing

i already created the perpetual motion,

ps: you surely gonna fixed the based magnet with screws and etc to hold it on place, otherwise the pyramid will repels it, but everyone knew this right? Laughing
Post 28 Sep 2017, 01:50
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Set up the experiment and report back here with your results.
Post 28 Sep 2017, 03:24
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
Re: EmDrive (also RF resonant cavity thruster)
Post 28 Sep 2017, 04:24
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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revolution wrote:
Set up the experiment and report back here with your results.



i am trying to find people who are skeptical that this wouldnt works, maybe they could explain to me, my flaw of logic how this could works,
Post 29 Sep 2017, 03:08
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
The flaw is simply that perpetual motion violates the extremely successful and well tested laws of physics. If your device were to break those laws then you will become a celebrity. But the safe money is to back the physics IMO.
Post 29 Sep 2017, 03:20
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sleepsleep



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perpetual motion might sounds like a strong word, how about it could just in motion for a long time, because i cant seem to find idea and reason to let it stall there,

it basically a competition of the gravity (assume it exists) pulling and the magnetic field that prevent such optimize pulling position available,

it will keeps trying to reach the optimize position, and thus circling the field,

idk how is this going to break physics law,
Post 29 Sep 2017, 04:16
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua

sleepsleep wrote:
perpetual motion might sounds like a strong word, how about it could just in motion for a long time, ...

You said this:

sleepsleep wrote:
i have zero idea how this gonna not in motion forever,

Moving forever would be perpetual motion. So you were asking about a PM device. If you just want it to move "for a long time" and eventually stop then there is nothing interesting here. It is just a matter of reducing the friction to make it last longer. Maybe put it in a vacuum chamber or something if all you want is to see it oscillate for long periods until it runs down.
Post 29 Sep 2017, 04:21
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sleepsleep



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ok, i make it more easier to explain what i mean,

without magnetic field now,

Image

a string with a metal super fine ball, perfect sphere,

with a larger metal ball, surface tip top without any crack,

how is it the metal ball could just hold on a particular spot on that larger metal ball? i dont think it is possible if both surface are super fine, super slippery,
Post 29 Sep 2017, 04:34
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
Set up the experiment and report back here with your results.
Post 29 Sep 2017, 04:37
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
Given that gravitational waves have been detected, even a binary system in a perfect vacuum (like the Earth orbiting the Sun in space) eventually comes to a halt. Perpetual motion, in its literal sense, simply cannot exist in our universe.

Refer to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave

Wink
Post 29 Sep 2017, 05:15
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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let me think of something more easily to deploy and test,
Post 29 Sep 2017, 11:05
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

sleepsleep wrote:
let me think of something more easily to deploy and test,

Nope. Don't do that.

Start learning elementary science today. Be an inventor only after you know the basic stuff.

Wink
Post 29 Sep 2017, 12:04
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