flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

flat assembler > Heap > ASM scene dead?

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3476
Location: Bulgaria
revolution, if you needed it, the "begin" statement would not stop you from using it. And IMHO, when we are talking about compatibility, for me, converting of N.10^5 lines of source only in order to attract your attention would be fairly non-optimal step.

In addition, Tomasz macros from the FASM package are very preprocessor oriented. Using them will disable many of the Fresh IDE essential features - the cross reference navigation, searching for the definitions, code completion for the local labels, etc.
Post 08 Apr 2015, 07:28
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16128
Location: Hyperborea
I don't expect you to convert N.10^5 lines of source code, that would a big waste of time. I also can't convert N.10^5 lines of source code as that would also be a big waste of time. For someone starting out new then they may have the freedom to choose an IDE/library but for people with existing code it is prohibitive.
Post 08 Apr 2015, 07:42
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3476
Location: Bulgaria
revolution wrote:
I don't expect you to convert N.10^5 lines of source code, that would a big waste of time. I also can't convert N.10^5 lines of source code as that would also be a big waste of time. For someone starting out new then they may have the freedom to choose an IDE/library but for people with existing code it is prohibitive.


That was exactly my point. But still using some snippets of code is possible and IMO highly desirable. BTW, this resembles me about our (with decard) very old project named Thingamy, about online assembly snippet library. Unfortunately this project has been deprecated.

_________________
Tox ID: 48C0321ADDB2FE5F644BB5E3D58B0D58C35E5BCBC81D7CD333633FEDF1047914A534256478D9
Post 08 Apr 2015, 07:59
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number Reply with quote
l_inc



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 881
JohnFound
Quote:
Tomasz macros from the FASM package are very preprocessor oriented. Using them will disable many of the Fresh IDE essential features - the cross reference navigation, searching for the definitions, code completion for the local labels, etc

A year ago I was telling pretty much exactly that, and you were claiming that to be far from truth.

When (if?) I'm ready to make a significant contribution for the assembly community (I'm very bad at doing multiple projects in parallel), I'm gonna start with two things:

1) To rework, improve and extend the standard fasm macro package (including standard definitions) by preserving the existing interfaces as much as possible with an expectation of inclusion into the official package. This would require to define quite narrow guidelines for the coding style within the package and for acceptable macro architectures.

As a matter of logical continuation a(nother) library with actual code for popular algorithms should be implemented (probably starting with what fasmlib provides). It surely would be stupid to not take a closer look at existing software such as freshlib.

2) To write a tutorial on best practices of writing fasm macros. Though it's planned to be written in russian, and called a bit more modest. Smile

_________________
Faith is a superposition of knowledge and fallacy
Post 08 Apr 2015, 14:26
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1389
Location: Toronto, Canada
So, a large open codebase in FASM would be nice to have?
Makes me think...
I mean the complete program for something serious.
Post 08 Apr 2015, 17:11
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3476
Location: Bulgaria
l_inc wrote:
A year ago I was telling pretty much exactly that, and you were claiming that to be far from truth.[/url]


Well, I still think like an year ago. The trick is that Fresh IDE works with the assembly stage labels. Once you use normal FASM labels, most of the development tools will work great, despite of the specific syntax of the macro library you use. Unfortunately, FASM main package macros for procedures use preprocessor symbols for the local variables and arguments. This way there is no labels at all and Fresh IDE tools simply can't work with them. These fake labels will not be listed in the code completion lists, you won't be able to check the cross reference about them, to jump where they are defined etc.
Of course, all preprocessor tools - like macro unrolling will work as always.

_________________
Tox ID: 48C0321ADDB2FE5F644BB5E3D58B0D58C35E5BCBC81D7CD333633FEDF1047914A534256478D9
Post 08 Apr 2015, 17:37
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number Reply with quote
JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3476
Location: Bulgaria
AsmGuru62 wrote:
I mean the complete program for something serious.


Web browser - the great dream of assembly programmers. Wink
Instant messenger/ IP phone/video chat with strong encryption and serverless (p2p).
Video player

...

IMHO it should be something for online work. It should be portable for Linux and Windows.
Also, IMHO, it is better to be 32bit (because 32bit application will work on 64bit OS, but 64bit application can't work on 32bit OS).

_________________
Tox ID: 48C0321ADDB2FE5F644BB5E3D58B0D58C35E5BCBC81D7CD333633FEDF1047914A534256478D9
Post 08 Apr 2015, 17:46
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1174
Location: Unknown
Quote:

Also, IMHO, it is better to be 32bit (because 32bit application will work on 64bit OS, but 64bit application can't work on 32bit OS).

Why are people always taking the easiest route?

I would simply make 1 for 32 and other for 64. But prioritizing the 64 version, because if you do otherwise chances are you will not have enough motivation to work on the 64 version after the 32 has been done because the 32 will work on 64. And that is the solution... 64 as priority and you will have enought motivation to convert to native 32 as the 64 will not work natively on 32.

Thank you!

I apologize for any inconveniences I may have caused.
Post 08 Apr 2015, 18:24
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3476
Location: Bulgaria
@HaHaAnonymous - all these details should be selected by the development team when (if) discussing the project architecture. In my post it was only humble opinion.
Post 08 Apr 2015, 18:53
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1174
Location: Unknown
Quote:

all these details should be selected by the development team when (if) discussing the project architecture. In my post it was only humble opinion.

I know. Sorry if I did something wrong, acted badly or anything... It was not my intention. D:
Post 08 Apr 2015, 21:09
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3476
Location: Bulgaria
HaHaAnonymous, in my (not so humble) opinion, you apologize more than needed.
Be more harsh, stiff, firm and tough, is my suggestion. Wink
Post 08 Apr 2015, 22:32
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1174
Location: Unknown
Quote:

HaHaAnonymous, in my (not so humble) opinion, you apologize more than needed.

I have a reason for that... People often say my replies/questions are uneducated, rude, inappropriate, unnecessary, ignorant + other adjectives I cannot remember... There were cases people felt sad or offended because of this.

Even without understanding, I think they were right, otherwise they wouldn't warn me. D: Then I decided to take more precautions, but it is hard thing to avoid, because I cannot see where they found that... I got really shocked, because it was not my intention.

And when I think it was fine, it is usually exactly that time that the "injury" occurred. It is somewhat confusing. D:

Quote:

Be more harsh, stiff, firm and tough, is my suggestion.

Then I feel bad about me... I start feeling as a very bad person I am not willing to be. If I am being or not, I am not sure.

I try to be as friendly as possible, but sometimes I fail to achieve that even without noticing... Sorry!
Post 08 Apr 2015, 22:54
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16128
Location: Hyperborea
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
I would simply make 1 for 32 and other for 64. But prioritizing the 64 version, because if you do otherwise chances are you will not have enough motivation to work on the 64 version after the 32 has been done because the 32 will work on 64. And that is the solution... 64 as priority and you will have enought motivation to convert to native 32 as the 64 will not work natively on 32.
Is there a requirement to address a large amount of memory (>2GB)? If "no" then make it 32bit. If "yes" then make it 64bit. If the answer is "sometimes" then we have to make a trade-off and compare the various percentages to decide what to do.
Post 09 Apr 2015, 01:48
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1174
Location: Unknown
Quote:

Is there a requirement to address a large amount of memory (>2GB)? If "no" then make it 32bit.

This is a good tip, revolution!

I will think twice before doubling my work unnecessarily. I guess I never thought about it this way. D:

Thank you! :D
Post 09 Apr 2015, 01:53
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
gens



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 159
i like 64bit more
more registers
Post 09 Apr 2015, 12:34
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
StrenoJr



Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Posts: 22
Location: Slovakia
For me, I don't come here very often, because it is a "closed community".
As I am a newbie (only spare-time coding learner, 18yrs), I see you as a bunch of geniuses with 30+ years of experience in the IT field and that scares me. These days it is popular to have chats (or atleast some IRC channels) on forums, so people could brag about nothing - forming the community. I think creating IRC or adding a chat applet would help the community.
Post 16 Apr 2015, 18:15
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3476
Location: Bulgaria
@StrenoJr - everyone can chat about nothing in the "Heap" forum. The missing chat is not because of the "closed community", but because it needs communication in real time, which is not very convenient for the most people here. (IMHO).
Post 17 Apr 2015, 07:44
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number Reply with quote
codestar



Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 254
comrade:
Quote:
I come in once a few times a month to check out the threads here but rarely see anything remotely interesting.
Neither do I. Would you like to contribute something "interesting"? Smile

ASM was dead a long time ago. I've never known a time when (real) programs were written exclusively in assembler. In the 90s, most programmers would use C/C++ or Pascal in their main files with inline or external assembler and only for advanced processing of graphics and sounds (Michael Abrash) and only sparingly where needed.

Why has this community devolved? In the past, I blamed the authoritative figures, the teachers who provide false information (then get attacked by their students) and the ignorant fools who support whatever is popular, making the rich richer and the poor* poorer. Now, I think that technology has just evolved and there's no one to "blame" in a negative way. We should thank the ones who help with it and maybe I should thank the "haters" who get me so angry that I'm motivated to get up and do something about the problems that I see instead of complaining.

(* PS: Poverty may not be a problem for a "white collar" engineer, but it's definitely a problem in southside Chicago, good guy. I assume that most (not all) "engineers" work for the "white man" and have no understanding of street lifestyle. 95% of my customers are gang members, drug dealers and prostitutes, not by choice. The remaining 5% are elderly "colored persons" respectfully who own churches, etc, they're always good to me. So, to the "haters", sit in your office chair and judge, but be careful, you might end up the same predicament which I would not wish upon anyone).
Post 20 Apr 2015, 21:28
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
anti-pasta



Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Hello,

I have been experimenting with RWASA lately after I read about it online. I think that this is a very cool idea and have never heard of a web server written in assembly before. After playing around with RWASA for a bit, I have been able to successfully create basic 'test' websites with various configurations which have been fun as all get out. One configuration that has been making me pull my hair out is proxying over to a Ghost blog, which uses Node.js. I was hoping that someone might be kind enough to point me in the right direction. Before I 'spam' this thread, I was wondering if this was an appropriate place to post about my issue or if there was somewhere else that is more suitable.

I appreciate any help that is offered. I wish to continue using RWASA as my go to web server whenever possible.
Post 30 Jul 2015, 14:51
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16128
Location: Hyperborea
anti-pasta: You are welcome to start a new thread in the "Heap". Perhaps someone can help you with your problem but please be prepared to describe it in more detail in case we don't quite follow what you are doing.
Post 30 Jul 2015, 15:26
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2018, Tomasz Grysztar.

Powered by rwasa.