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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
maybe, but things became more complex in modern day, all the processed eatable,

i haven't yet live or try to live like those grand grand grand father days, i just assume life could be better and simple in those days,

like those days when we are kids, almost zero worry on what to eat or drink tomorrow, i presume ideal life should be somewhere near there,

i believe, we been making basic needs more complex than it requires,

revolution wrote:
Freedom from money has a cost also. Would you rather be a beggar in the streets, or do all your own hunting, cooking and self-protection in the jungle? What if you fell and broke your leg? Just wait around till a tiger eats you?


i envisioned a world and society that co-operate to bring the best of humanity, without the motivation of money,

a greater humanity, together to create a better system, a heaven on earth,

~

in another pov, this capitalism system is rigged, rich become richer and poor become poorer,
Post 19 Jan 2019, 17:48
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1433
Furs
sleepsleep wrote:
let us put it this way, human got needs,
food, clothes, accommodation, transport, basic needs,

how freely are we, in the process to fulfill those needs? apparently, not so free,
Yeah and those needs are natural, and not the result of money. Why are you blaming money for them then?

sleepsleep wrote:
all kinds of tax, put on top of those needs, so we got tax on needs,
I agree with you there, but that tax is usually in money though.

sleepsleep wrote:
now, there is no way at least at this moment, to skip our basic needs,

how freely are we to obtain those needs,? less freedom compare to our ancient grand grand grand fathers and mothers,
Because you live and were born in a much more advanced society.

i.e. There are too many people on the planet today.

If each and every single person today would go and live like their grand grand fathers by hunting and scavenging, all the animals would be extinct in a few hours at best and then they would all starve to death.

You can't live off like your forefathers because there's too many people on the planet today compared to back then.

And this has nothing to do with money.

sleepsleep wrote:
they introduce a medium for exchange, and introduce the concept of work to obtain that medium of exchange, money,

it is not we want money, but money become embedded inside basic needs already, it became the vessel for us to obtain basic needs,
No, money is what other people want in exchange for food that you need for your basic needs.

You don't convert money to food. You give the money to some other HUMAN which wants the money -- and he gives you food in return. What do you expect, that he gives you his food for free?

Money is simply the most efficient way to trade and is necessary in a society with such a high population.

You can always give him something else that he wants and negotiate and see if he accepts, but that's cumbersome.
Post 19 Jan 2019, 19:48
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
sleepsleep wrote:
i envisioned a world and society that co-operate to bring the best of humanity, without the motivation of money,
Meanwhile, back in the real world ...

Smile

But seriously, money is not the motivator. Greed is the motivator. If you eliminate money, you will still have greedy people. Someone will hoard all the chickens and demand you provide things for them in exchange for eggs and meat. Someone else block access to water and demand you provide things for them in exchange for water. etc. And guess what, you are back to an inefficient bartering society. Eventually people start agreeing that gold (or whatever) is a more convenient exchange mechanism than using physical produce.

I think the flaw in your argument is to ascribe money as the problem. It isn't. Money is a solution to the bartering exchange problem. And greed is the driver of the bartering exchange problem. Solve greed and everything falls into place to make your Utopia.
Post 20 Jan 2019, 05:33
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
yeah, back in the real world,
what is real world?
except a grand illusion to cause us believe, it is real,

it might be real, but till how long it could be real to us?

the limited life span already presented a solid proof that, if it is real, it is real only for a moment to us,

it is such persisting and synchronized illusion that cause us not to doubt it's realness,

I already presented a case that our own memory could be hijacked or modified,

how is wakeup from sleep is not a different program, except we believe it is a continuous from previous,

greed is not a bad thing, thing that matters is what one is greeding about,

I define greed as serious and professional attitude, strategy, action to own and bring something into possession,

~

the grand illusion that we believe we could actually own something is the reason that we couldn't cooperate and work together for a better humanity,

in the year of 2100, what actually own by us,?

all the Bitcoin, stocks, monies or whatever, who own the pyramids?

if people start to realize, everything is connected, our own lives are somehow connected too,

there aren't random, everything are connected,

money just made greed easier to be executed,
Post 20 Jan 2019, 16:59
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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guignol
Who is this non deer G you keep on talking about?
Post 20 Jan 2019, 19:41
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Bed that save me from Taliban,
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-46882917

life is beautiful,. cherished everything moment, every hour,
Post 21 Jan 2019, 14:39
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
the realization of changes,

why changes must take place?
why some changes don't take place?

the initialization started with a disk of thought,

welcoming infinite inputs,

do we respect our minds? do we trust our minds, or we allow the usual generals to handle all the incoming inputs and render them all as usual,

addiction into something is no different to addiction to heroine, drugs, morphines, anime, sex, power, works, coding, music, sports, gambling and etc,

they are different substances with same desire, or greed, attachment, or etc words,

is like an entry exam to see who could pass and worth to be look upon and chosen into next level of exam,

are we doing challenges without awareness? hoping too somehow luckily pass through? maybe,

realizing these are exams is the first step toward second step,
Post 21 Jan 2019, 19:44
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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guignol
Are you telling us that you are sure you're not addicted?
Post 22 Jan 2019, 12:25
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
what we want vs what we displayed to others what we want,

what we know vs what others assumed we knew,

things only become norm when people have quantity, yeah, quantity rules in the end i guess,
Post 22 Jan 2019, 12:42
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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guignol
Guess' exactly the wrong word.
(remember?)

_________________
qiq;
Post 22 Jan 2019, 17:05
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
guignol wrote:

Are you telling us that you are sure you're not addicted?

nope, i am trying to understand what is addiction in the grand view, there are lots of words point back to such idea, holding changes,

everybody have addiction, attachment, preferred changes,

in fact, the law of how things work could be viewed as some form of attachment,

attachment to good conduct? morale?

since there is no good or bad in grand view, what push conscious into this conclusion?

another conclusion would be, if no question exists, could we save the trouble to find answers or trying to make sense what those questions are?

the idea of 空 , going back to 空, and everything is 空, sounds like if we don't have any thoughts, then we don't have anything associate and expanded from thought that gonna keep on expanding and expanding,

sounds like how universe expanding,

then the whole universe is just thoughts,
Post 22 Jan 2019, 19:01
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
people gone in all kinds of situation,
all seconds, someone leaving earth, forever,

we take lives recklessly, be it human lives, or animal, we simply don't have the conscious to really care about lives,

we only capable to care very limited and for very limited moment, since changes is how things work,

how fast we could react when panic situation kicks in?

every moment could be a death or survive, attack or escape,

we don't bother until it happened,

why and what is it with this I want to survive idea?
Post 22 Jan 2019, 20:57
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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guignol
you're contradicting yourself
Post 23 Jan 2019, 07:11
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
what cause permanent realization? enlightenment? or etc i am god moment?

it seems that the cause would be, lack of information, and lack of circumstances to relate hold information into new conclusion,

guignol wrote:
you're contradicting yourself

you too, because the idea of words is to convey your idea to me, but you use it in the way to create more confusion instead of understanding,

basically, what you did is like below, summarize the above sentence into few words,

word convey, create confusion, <- example,
you are pushing a solution or problem?

~

in another part of world,

one could stole others happiness, but for how long?

for all the impermanent etc, the only way to progress is to take up enough information, create changes, let go, and gather more information, create changes, let go and repeat,

attachment in any kind of form, etc words that mean no changes etc,

ask ourselves, do we need improve? progress? better ourselves? more roundness round,

because there is no way to hold past and future together,
mixing cement with sand, having a wall, but want to keep them separated? the whole thing don't work this way, Laughing

~

somehow, having this idea,
is repetition an issue? or repetition is an act to cease repetition?

so one having greed with the idea of having enough of it and stop needing greed in coming changes?

it points of letting go is the only way to progress?

~
if we got only 24 hours, and if we keep on repeating what yesterday, it just mean we wouldn't have any more hour to take on new changes,

dumping away some old repetition to gain new changes, sound logical,

hard disk full, but you want to install new program, solution is to uninstall some rarely used program, some not so useful program, some program that hook up more of your time but bring zero benefits,

it sounds logical on words, but why attachment exists here,

because we are not comfortable with the idea of changes?

the nature of greed? why exists the preferred idea of having more, holding more, resists to changes?

you see, the issue could be due to lack of information, because of unknown,

we don't grab the idea of benefits after changes,

we want certainty,
Post 23 Jan 2019, 11:23
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
I reached another conclusion,

dream is very powerful, there are insight into it

these happened to me, at least four times now, for this month,

there are something more about dream, wish all the dreamers came into realization and use this power for greater humanity,
Post 23 Jan 2019, 13:24
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Dreams might give you insight into your own thoughts and memories. But anything more than that I would be sceptical.
Post 23 Jan 2019, 14:58
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
revolution wrote:

But anything more than that I would be sceptical.

it is good to be skeptical, in fact, it is a must, a doubt is always preferred compare to blind believe,

for what i went through, i would dare to say, dream is very powerful sort of event, it insight future, incoming changes,

and probably hold the answers to all problems,

i am still learning, and i tasted some sweet from dreams,
Post 23 Jan 2019, 17:35
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different result,

another level of understanding if we put above quote into our life, ourselves,

we keep on repeating the same yesterday desires, greed, etc events that happened before, and our mind thought about different tomorrow, different treatment by others, different of everything compare to what we have at this moment,

and we repeating yesterday, woke up with desire to have difference?

repeating yesterday probably is having conflict with expanding mind, expanding universe,
Post 23 Jan 2019, 19:44
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
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Furs
revolution wrote:
Dreams might give you insight into your own thoughts and memories. But anything more than that I would be sceptical.
I once had a long Deja Vu moment. And at that time I remembered it was from a dream in the past. Now I know that Deja Vu can be tricks of the mind, but it was a long one. Basically, when I realized it was a Deja Vu I could predict what happened next and it actually did happen for about half a minute. It was crazy, but it was awhile ago and never had that happen again. Sad

So I guess I used to be skeptical.
Post 23 Jan 2019, 21:30
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
what I went through was verifiable future, it shocks me because it reoccurred few times already,

I am going to push different question into dream and see if it could guides me towards my desires, my preferred changes,

I might could change a little bit here and there if I could see through the future,

question would be how to push question into dream and how to interpret answers,

my next step would be gaining this power,
Post 24 Jan 2019, 04:47
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