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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf

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Raedwulf
Post 12 May 2009, 11:03
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
I don't know how that pokes fun at me but...ok.
Post 12 May 2009, 14:52
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
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HyperVista
I think it's because you seem quick to post links about Microsoft loosing market share... Very Happy
Post 12 May 2009, 15:17
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
No, I post about IE losing market share, but I do talk of MS not mattering anymore with regards to applications.
Post 12 May 2009, 16:51
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
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Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
Yes, of course. But I think we equate MS IE losing market share with MS losing market share. Wink
Post 12 May 2009, 16:57
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comrade



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 1137
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comrade
drhowarddrfine is delusional
Post 13 May 2009, 06:41
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
How so? I've never found anyone to prove me wrong on this subject so, if you think I'm wrong, show me, but no one has so far.
Post 13 May 2009, 13:57
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
Well, HERE'S a timely article that supports drhowarddrfine's assertion that MS IE is losing market share. The subtext of the article indicates that because of closer scrutiny of MS "business practices" in Europe and the US won't allow them to pull some of thier old anti-trust "tricks" and therefore must really compete, which doesn't bode well for them....

But I hardly think MS is irrelevant, at least not yet. It's understandable that anyone who has over 90% of a market will lose market share in the face of more open competition. We'll have to wait a few more years to see where the numbers settle. MS will still be a significant player in the OS and App market space for some time to come, imho.
Post 13 May 2009, 15:51
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
Four years ago, IE had 95+% market share. Today
Microsoft is dead
Post 13 May 2009, 16:28
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
While the web moves forward, Microsoft has always held it back. As the specifications get written and implemented for HTML5, and Microsoft co-chairs the working group, they just don't show up. Here's a quote from Ian Hickson, the editor for the HTML5 spec:
Quote:
Hixie

Personally I would like Microsoft to get more involved with HTML 5. They’ve sent very little feedback over the years, far less than the other browser vendors. Even when asking them about their opinion on features they are implementing I rarely get any feedback. It’s very sad. If I e-mail them a question about how I can best help them, I usually get no reply; at best I’ll get a promise that they’ll get back to me, but that’s it.


How are things to get better when the dominant browser vendor won't show up to the table? How can Microsoft ignore all others in this important process that they claim to support? How can they continue to co-chair this committee in this way?
Post 14 May 2009, 15:18
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
Microsoft don't care, they are rich enough to afford to ignore such things. The only way to break the arrogance is to have a serious competitor to Windows and Office. But that becomes harder and harder when everyone is already reliant upon Windows. It seems to be a chicken and egg thing.

Unfortunately Linux is not there for people yet. Too many people doing their own thing makes the whole thing a scary proposition for non-technical users. I once suggested to my ex-company that they try using Linux, the response was "We are not hackers, we want stuff to do normal daily work!". Windows can afford to advertise, so the public don't know any better, and they buy. You can't win of you have no money.
Post 14 May 2009, 15:41
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
revolution wrote:
I once suggested to my ex-company that they try using Linux, the response was "We are not hackers, we want stuff to do normal daily work!".
Hmm. I do normal daily work on *nix. Same thing you probably do at your office. On my Ubuntu computer, I use just a standard install with no changes, too. Right out of the box. I don't understand the issue for any company.
Post 14 May 2009, 16:14
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
The issue is the perception. Windows advertises their product and people become comfortable with it simply because they have seen it. To many people, *nix (but they only seem to know of Linux) is a thing for uber-geeks and computer gods. Surely you have realised this is a common perception? We here, on fasm board, know better - but then we are probably also considered computer gods to those same people.

So this is why MS can afford to be arrogant and not care about HTML 5. Why bother to do otherwise when you "know" you have the market in the palm of your hand.
Post 14 May 2009, 16:25
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8472
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
i am quite dare to predict that, ms will only have less than 50% marketshare in the coming 5 years..

hopefully somebody could bring up this thread and prove me correct in year 2014.

and hopefully nothing happen in 2012 too... hehehe
Post 14 May 2009, 17:07
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Unix is not even centered around a single user or desktop environment. Windows came from such an environment, that's why it's much more attractive "to common users". When people in charge of Linux (which isn't even supposed to be Unix, or so they claim) finally realize that the many-user centralized-computing (i.e server-wise) approach basically sucks for the average user, we'll finally see Linux more attractive.

It is NOT graphics or bling, except for few below-average joes. Linux is good at that yet still fails at becoming popular even with the catastrophic introduction of Windows Vista.
Post 14 May 2009, 21:59
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
I'm not sure about the client/server thing Borsuc, I think it is more the lack of centralised control. Like I mentioned above, so many people doing their own things creates havoc. If they all came together and worked as one and create a polished system and advertise then people may start to consider it more seriously. But that needs money (ooh, the evil money thing!). Without money it will never get anywhere significant. Anyone got a spare billion dollars? Put half into development and half into advertising. Get vendors to port their code to it (or get WINE working 99.9999%) to give people a path for migration.
Post 14 May 2009, 22:14
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 820
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
revolution wrote:
I think it is more the lack of centralised control


you mean something like MS corp. or Apple corp. ?
i'm quite agree with you
Post 15 May 2009, 02:05
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
As I always say, Windows is for novices and *nix is for professionals. Windows is easy to use but don't try and go outside the box. Professionals will always gravitate toward *nix.
Post 15 May 2009, 04:52
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16843
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
drhowarddrfine wrote:
As I always say, Windows is for novices and *nix is for professionals. Windows is easy to use but don't try and go outside the box. Professionals will always gravitate toward *nix.
Well if you are saying that, then Windows will rule forever. That statement certainly doesn't help your cause. How many people in the this world consider themselves computer professionals? Even "professionals" (whatever that means) need to use the "novices" system else how to help them when they have problems. Talk about digging your own grave! You can't grow support for your OS by telling people that they can't use it, since it is only for "professionals"!
Post 15 May 2009, 05:09
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
revolution wrote:
Even "professionals" (whatever that means) need to use the "novices" system else how to help them when they have problems.
That's true but that's the only such case. Remember, before Windows came around, novices didn't mess with computers at all, only professionals did.
Quote:
Talk about digging your own grave! You can't grow support for your OS by telling people that they can't use it, since it is only for "professionals"!
I'm not trying to stir up support for *nix. I would prefer such people stayed away from *nix. Already too many of them are ruining Linux, trying to make it act like Windows and steering a lot of the coding away from the Unix Philosophy. That's why many of us BSD folks don't care for Linux, among other things.
Post 15 May 2009, 13:02
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