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flat assembler > Heap > Cloud computing. Who is in control?

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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Quote:

Hotmail's terms of service includes a section that says, "We may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to ... protect the rights or property of Microsoft or our customers."



it is there from the beginning....

the fast internet will just make everything more vulnerable,
Post 21 Mar 2014, 13:08
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 14923
Location: 6EQUJ5

sleepsleep wrote:

Quote:

Hotmail's terms of service includes a section that says, "We may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to ... protect the rights or property of Microsoft or our customers."



it is there from the beginning....

Of course. But nobody reads the T&C. And remember that ALL T&Cs will have a similar clause. Best to just assume that whatever you upload is instantly going to be made fully public and then there should be no misunderstanding.


Last edited by revolution on 21 Mar 2014, 22:58; edited 1 time in total
Post 21 Mar 2014, 13:42
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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agree,
gmail, gdrive, hotmail, live, hushmail, and more,
Post 21 Mar 2014, 13:54
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1385
Location: Toronto, Canada
I suppose keeping encrypted files in the cloud is safe.
Emails however are, probably, not encrypted.

I am saying that "email" and "the cloud" are different in nature.
I can encrypt my files and put them on the cloud, but to do the same
with email would mean that I need to write some coded messages, so
it would be a nightmare to read - or even impossible without key document.
Post 21 Mar 2014, 15:09
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2909
Location: 0x77760000

AsmGuru62 wrote:
I suppose keeping encrypted files in the cloud is safe.
Emails however are, probably, not encrypted.

I am saying that "email" and "the cloud" are different in nature.
I can encrypt my files and put them on the cloud, but to do the same
with email would mean that I need to write some coded messages, so
it would be a nightmare to read - or even impossible without key document.




Use PGP for email. But that means your recipient must also do the same
Post 21 Mar 2014, 22:53
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Bruce Schneier has posted a three part essay "Should Companies Do Most of Their Computing in the Cloud?"

Part1: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/should_companie.html
Part2: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/should_companie_1.html
Part3: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/should_companie_2.html


Quote:
Why don't I embrace the cloud in the same way my younger colleagues do? There are three reasons, and they parallel the trade-offs corporations faced with the same decisions are going to make.

The first is control. I want to be in control of my data, and I don't want to give it up. I have the ability to keep control by running my own services my way. Most of those students lack the technical expertise, and have no choice. They also want services that are only available on the cloud, and have no choice. I have deliberately made my life harder, simply to keep that control. Similarly, companies are going to decide whether or not they want to -- or even can -- keep control of their data.

The second is security. I talked about this at length in my opening statement. Suffice it to say that I am extremely paranoid about cloud security, and think I can do better. Lots of those students don't care very much. Again, companies are going to have to make the same decision about who is going to do a better job, and depending on their own internal resources, they might make a different decision.

The third is the big one: trust. I simply don't trust large corporations with my data. I know that, at least in America, they can sell my data at will and disclose it to whomever they want. It can be made public inadvertently by their lax security. My government can get access to it without a warrant. Again, lots of those students don't care. And again, companies are going to have to make the same decisions.

Post 10 Jun 2015, 17:46
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: 6EQUJ5
So, now we can use online services and enjoy not having access to our data no matter if it is paid for it or not. Yet another "cloud service" makes a mistake and thousands suffer because of it.

http://support.gliffy.com/entries/98911057--Gliffy-Online-System-Outage

I have a computer here in front of me. So do you. Why would either of us need to use someone else's computer to do this simple stuff? Answer: We don't need to at all. But for some reason a lot of people accept this kind of backward thinking.

If I use my own computer to do things then I don't have to care about keeping my cloud payments up to date. I don't have to care about keeping a 100% on Internet connection. I don't have to care if company X is making enough money to stay in business. I don't have to care if company X has good security. I can go to the beach, or the park, whenever I want and do my work. I can be on a boat, or in an aeroplane, or in the desert, or wherever and do my work.


Last edited by revolution on 24 Mar 2016, 14:59; edited 1 time in total
Post 24 Mar 2016, 05:24
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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How one developer just broke Node, Babel and thousands of projects in 11 lines of JavaScript

So one person get annoyed to discover that he has no control over one of his modules after it is removed by the site owner due to legal threats from a third party. He then decides to remove all of his modules and in the process breaks thousands of other projects that are dependant upon his code.

And to add insult to injury, the site owner restores some of his code (to fix all the broken stuff) against his wishes to remove it.

And his code was crap anyway, O(n^2) complexity for left padding, so no great loss there, except that so many other people blindly used it without thinking.
Post 24 Mar 2016, 05:51
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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
> Could you trust another company to hold and process all your data online?

Absolutely not, and it would appear that time has shown so.

> Could you trust every employee of another company to keep your data safe?

See above.

> Could you trust that every line of code written for the server is bug free?

See above.

> Would you still feel you are 100% in control of your data?

100% NOT

> Do you feel that centralised computing makes it easier for governments to monitor people's activities?

100% YES

> Would you still own all of your data?

This largely depends upon the service contract.

> Are you willing to give up your current PC for a dumber 'net only version?

NEVER

> Do you want to pay by the hour/day/month/year to ensure you still have access to your data?

NO

> Could you trust others to do proper backups, thus freeing you from that burden?

Absolutely not.

For a little more information, I worked at a web host for sometime. We mostly served the adult industry, but we had a number of non-adult content customers as well. The struggle to keep things secure is active and never-ending. Companies are normally rolling out patches as attacks are coming in to other servers. There is never a guarantee that things are secure, and you can usually bet that some number of a company's servers are already exploited. Why? Software costs. Even with free software running the servers, you have the actual site code which will need to be updated for newer versions of PHP, Java, Python, NodeJS, Apache, SSL, etc... and companies are loathe to spend on that. Plus, it's a massive amount of work for the SysAdmins/SysEngineers to overhaul everything. Many companies' employees are not even aware of how many physical machines they have, how many VMs are on each physical machine, or even what sites and services they own. They instead rely on the host to know all of that. The people at the host have hundreds (sometimes thousands) of customers, and have to hope that someone, at some point, updated the data on their side... and if not, you just write up a quick expect script to loop through IPs owned by a customer to get hostnames, run a check for web server software, and then report back with configured domains/subdomains. It's a mess. At any given point in time, the entire world's could infrastructure and network infrastructure is 15 minutes from total failure and it is only through constant effort that everything is kept online. While I would love to say that this is confined to the web services world, it isn't. Government and financial systems are very similar.

So, you ask whether or not I trust the cloud? Absolutely not.
Post 24 Mar 2016, 13:45
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1385
Location: Toronto, Canada
I 2nd ford.
No clouds.
Post 24 Mar 2016, 14:51
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Tangentially related. Buy some hardware and allow an external company (Google) to remotely and intentionally disable it.

https://medium.com/@arlogilbert/the-time-that-tony-fadell-sold-me-a-container-of-hummus-cb0941c762c1


Quote:
... I mean that on May 15th they will actually turn off the device and disable your ability to use the hardware that you paid for.

Post 05 Apr 2016, 14:14
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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
WOW. That issue with revolv/google is outrageous! This basically seems like theft to me.

This is EXACTLY the type of shit that I feared though. Beyond Google's really shady info selling, the fact that they are willing to brick people's hardware is just beyond the pale.
Post 05 Apr 2016, 17:00
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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I imagine Google couldn't find a way to get those ever important ads to be in your face so they decided to kill it.

But it is the same with things like the iPhone. You are completely at the mercy of an external company that only cares about profit.
Post 06 Apr 2016, 00:25
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ProphetOfDoom



Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 72
Location: UK
I have experienced a Google-bricking (or at least a near-bricking) first hand. Back in 2012, I bought a Nexus 7 WiFi tablet directly from Google. This was when Android tablets were the next big thing. I was so happy with it. Then when Android 5 appeared, Google put out an OS update that made the thing literally useless. It took up to two minutes to respond to a single tap! It was as if someone had inserted a massive, random "busy wait" into the kernel (like aa long for loop that does nothing). I searched and found everyone else with my device was experiencing the same (and complaining to Google and getting no response).
I rolled back to Android 4 for a few months and the tablet limped on. Now I'm using CyanogenMod and the computer is quite zippy again, though for how long I know not. I think most non-technical users have probably just disposed of their device, as unlocking and flashing a new OS is far from trivial. When this device finally does go to robot Heaven I will buy a tablet from Asus or someone.
But what disturbs me far more about Google is that they are now employing Ray Kurzweil, a delusional transhumanist who wants to "resurrect" his own father by uploading his memories of his father to a computer. That kind of thing makes the planned obsolescence of my tablet computer seem less important somehow.
Post 06 Apr 2016, 01:06
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution wrote:
But it is the same with things like the iPhone. You are completely at the mercy of an external company that only cares about profit.

And now to add to that we have the Apple Music subscription removing data from your HDD and transferring it to the "cloud" without even asking you.

https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/


Quote:
For about ten years, I’ve been warning people, "hang onto your media. One day, you won’t buy a movie. You’ll buy the right to watch a movie, and that movie will be served to you. If the companies serving the movie don’t want you to see it, or they want to change something, they will have the power to do so. They can alter history, and they can make you keep paying for things that you formerly could have bought. Information will be a utility rather than a possession. Even information that you yourself have created will require unending, recurring payments just to access."

Post 07 May 2016, 09:15
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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
This wasn't so bad in the fairly recent past. The tech industry was the one industry that wasn't a complete government supported oligopoly. Unfortunately, Intel, Nvidia, Google, Apple, Amazon, and Microsoft essentially own the entire market. They have very little true reason to compete with one another as the market is large enough for all players to make a killing. This also means that there is no incentive to allow people to "own" anything, or to allow them to keep something that is old in a functioning state. As the only people in the market, they have no reason to actually provide what the public wants. We all get forced into a silo of media content and devices.
Post 08 May 2016, 23:27
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TheRaven



Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 72
Location: U.S.A.
Cloud computing is a groupie whore venue --hate the whole concept of cloud anything except toilet paper (white cloud). Only in America can you wipe your ass with a cloud, ain't no wonder why everybody hates us.

Cloud computing is the next big re=branding, bullshit, un-imaginative, loser, idiot festival ripe with invasion of privacy, possibly piracy, illegal distribution and general stupidity issues.

Correct my white trash ass if I'm inbred, but I thought this cloud computing and data storage shit was main frame computing with raid. Maybe, I got dropped on my f@$#ing head when I was born or possibly slam dunked on it. I don't know shit cause I'm status quo with ears (least that's what the know-it-alls tell me).

_________________
Nothing is so sought after and often avoided as the truth.
Post 20 Oct 2016, 04:47
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Everything is better in the cloud.

http://www.cloudpro.co.uk/leadership/risks/6965/cisco-meraki-loses-customer-data-in-engineering-gaffe

Trust the cloud, nothing will ever go wrong.
Post 08 Aug 2017, 08:50
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 556
@revolution: To be honest with you, people who do trust the cloud are better off trusting the cloud, since they're too dumb to begin with making their data even less secure by themselves.

People who don't trust the cloud, well, they're smarter by definition, so that doesn't apply since they can use common sense when protecting themselves.
Post 08 Aug 2017, 11:59
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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People that use the Meraki stuff are not "dumb", or at least they shouldn't be. Those things are expensive and not for the casual user.

Even if we ignore the data loss for a moment, if the users don't pay the yearly fees they lose the service. They literally rely upon an external for-profit company to stay in business so that their own business can function.
Post 08 Aug 2017, 12:15
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