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flat assembler > Heap > Linux hardware advice: What to buy?

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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
Well when the system comes up in Linux there is no Internet because the WiFi is not detected, or there is no driver for it, or something, so I can't go and search for solutions. Plus even if it did have the proper WiFi driver then I can't type the password. And if somehow I managed to type the password and connect then I can't type the website name 'google.com'. And even did manage to get to google (or whatever search engine) I can't type the search string. So you see it all is connected and not really usable. Oh, by the way, did I tell you the graphics is all distorted and hard read? Well they were, so reading a website, assuming I can actually type it all somehow, would be awful. And trying to position the mouse onto a distorted browser icon when the cursor jumps 20 pixels each time my heart beats and moves my finger one picometre to the left is really really difficult.

So, after shutting it down and rebooting into Windows I'm usually so annoyed at having my time wasted that I can't be bothered to search for "google solutions" and write them down, reboot, and try the solutions one-by-one until one works. And how do I type in the solutions anyway (bad keyboard remember)? Or maybe all of the google solutions will fail and do another round. And that is just for one problem. Then I would have to repeat that to attempt to fix other things. It's kind of like a game, but we are not sure if the boss is beatable or not.

So I try some other distro (there are only about 68 bajillion to choose from so it is easy to find the "right" one) and I get the same problems, or sometimes additional problems, or different problems, etc.

Welcome to my pain. Smile

Some figures may be slightly exaggerated for comedic effect, but not by much.
Post 08 Oct 2017, 14:33
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 868
Well if you found the solution from Windows and don't want to use a Linux filesystem manager on Windows (I wouldn't recommend it anyway), did you try to edit the files or whatever in recovery mode? When it boots, hold SHIFT or spam ESC after the POST screen then select it.

Yeah, it's command line, you'll have to know some basic commands (rm removes, for example) and a bit careful since you're root. First you should mount the root partition, so use e.g. "mount /" which should automatically mount it since it's placed in the mount "settings" (/etc/fstab), so you can get the tools needed. I think it might automatically mount it anyway, not sure. (recovery mode mounts as little stuff as possible since it's supposed to be for "recovery"). If you have your /home on a different partition then also type "mount /home" if you need to change a file there.

For a terminal editor, use 'nano' (to open file /a/b/c in it, use e.g. "nano -w /a/b/c" command (-w is to not wrap lines)). Edit the offending file and press CTRL+X or something and save it.

Mind you, this sounds tedious but it is a special case in the sense that you need to do it without the X server etc since the keyboard is messed up, and it doesn't take long at all. Most problems can be done from within Linux not with "recovery mode". So it's not the "normal" way to solve most problems, since people tend to think "dude if such a simple thing needs this complicated fix, wtf will the others" which is WRONG.

Next step would be to install the proprietary graphics drivers (hope you're using Nvidia or Intel, I heard AMD drivers suck) to fix the graphics. If you use Mint or Debian-based distro, I can tell you how to do it for Nvidia drivers since it's easy and automatic Razz
Post 08 Oct 2017, 15:37
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
AMD-E350 is the awesome "fusion" CPU in the box. No nVidia, no Intel.

But, I haven't even touched that USB stick with the live Linux on it for a few months now. I kind of hope it has died and I will have an excuse to pretend it all never happened.

BTW: I'm perfectly happy to use a CLI. No issue. But when the keyboard is mapped as something odd .. well it is no fun to try and type anything. I don't know what I am doing, or what I am supposed to do anyway. If only I had the foresight to ask for help from people about what to buy so I won't have this problem ...
Post 08 Oct 2017, 16:30
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ProphetOfDoom



Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 120
Location: UK
I don't tend to buy those desktop computers that look like something out of stone henge any more. But if you're in the UK this website sells them and there's an option of buying one with no OS installed. It warns you that only mentally deranged people buy a non-windows PC lol, but you can click past the warning.

https://www.cclonline.com/pc/workstation-pcs/

The last one I bought about 4 years ago and everything in Ubuntu and Fedora worked out of the box apart from the WiFi which was rectified in a few minutes by plugging in a USB WiFi dongle and blacklisting the built-in WiFi driver in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf

Lenovo ThinkPad laptops are reputed to play nicely with Linux too. But I wouldn't buy Lenovo again cos I had a bad experience with one of their awful "Yoga" machines. That's a laptop product line by the way - not some weird sex toy.
Post 09 Oct 2017, 01:49
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 868

revolution wrote:
AMD-E350 is the awesome "fusion" CPU in the box. No nVidia, no Intel.

But, I haven't even touched that USB stick with the live Linux on it for a few months now. I kind of hope it has died and I will have an excuse to pretend it all never happened.

BTW: I'm perfectly happy to use a CLI. No issue. But when the keyboard is mapped as something odd .. well it is no fun to try and type anything. I don't know what I am doing, or what I am supposed to do anyway. If only I had the foresight to ask for help from people about what to buy so I won't have this problem ...

Well sounds like you've got your mind set. Yet, Windows won't satisfy you anymore, so your "request" is impossible. I'm afraid you're going to have to put some earnest effort instead of dismissing everything instantly. Wink

Now, I actually spend a lot of time on tweaking a new Windows OS as well, even in VMs... I don't really see it any different than Linux. Presumably if there's a sure way to disable all the tracking and telemetry, you'd probably have to waste a few hours to configure your Windows OS that way (assuming you go with it) and a few "hacks" to go with it.

Maybe tweaking Linux a bit so it plays nice isn't so bad after all? But you do need a more open mind, nobody said Linux will be perfect from day 1. Razz (and I'm not speaking from a Linux fanboy point of view, since I use Windows too in VMs these days, and Wine on Linux cause i like most Windows apps too)
Post 09 Oct 2017, 12:16
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
The point I guess I totally failed to make was that, sure I can, possibly, get some version of Linux to work, with some effort and time investment. Okay, but then what? Now I have a specially configured machine for a special situation. So I worry that the next update, or the next version, or the next distro, or the next system, things will go haywire again. Maybe they won't. I just don't know. What I would like is to have something "that just works", that would make me feel much more comfortable, and save me a lot of time for other things like riding my bike or updating fasmarm.

I am somewhat saddened that many people (not talking about people on this board) just seem happy to accept that Linux will be a struggle. And also some that just accept any old crap sold by the vendors. IMO we should be asking for the things we want, not just taking whatever they decide to offer. [/rant]
Post 09 Oct 2017, 12:25
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 868
Well just use the LTS versions and you're good for several years? You can even update the kernel without problem if you want (and revert back easily if it doesn't work, but I've never had that issue yet, it only installs them side-by-side, doesn't remove the old one).

I've "accepted" that I need to waste some time with any new OS, not just Linux. I don't understand people who "just use" Windows without configuring it, and then wondering why it's full of bloat, malware, telemetry, etc. The default configs are just disgusting. I've accepted this since, idk, 2004? When I made my super lite Windows XP.

I'm saying if you want to have your way, you have to put effort into it. There's no OS that "just works" for what you want. Even if, again, you end up using a lite "hacked" version of Windows 10 without the spying and stuff, you still need to put effort, sorry. Wink

And if you do a few configs daily you won't notice them as waste of time (at least I don't) and you'll be set before you know it. But maybe I'm just different. Confused (also, some people overblow "minor" problems on reviews and stuff, like say, a LED not being on a keyboard or something, srsly?)

To be honest, I find it sad that some people accept Windows' "quirks" and then just joke around Microsoft, while if Linux has a quirk they have to handle, they say "what a shit OS, this is why I use Windows".

Case in point: my mouse needed to have a boot parameter for the kernel, else it would hang at boot for like 1 minute (not such a big deal). Fix was easy, yet people would bash Linux.

Yet when someone has a bug with Windows booting up in 2 minutes due to a quirk in their router/network (don't ask me, I don't know what, but that's what the guy said), they find it "acceptable" and just "daily life", "minor problem", WTF?
Post 09 Oct 2017, 12:35
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15241
Location: 1I/ʻOumuamua
Oh no, Windows also needs to be tamed, I don't mean to say use it and don't touch any settings. I was meaning a lower level than that, like having the basic hardware working would be a nice touch. Wink And, yes, I fully understand that the necessary docs are not being made available, so only large companies like MS can get access to the proper information. This is where we, as the consumers, should refuse to buy such things if we can't get all the information. But unfortunately the current world doesn't work that way. Sad
Post 09 Oct 2017, 12:40
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 6951
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there are struggle in using linux, no doubt, in fact, everybody face struggle in doing lots of things,

windows certainly did a great job to hide and ease up lots of the basic configuration, so one feel like one knew how to operate it by watching and doing, (you watch how others open what windows, where and click what and change)

linux doesnt hides thing, in the sense, it pushes as many detail as possible to user,

and the mindset that using cli feels like pro, and users have a probably false impression that, such is the "acceptable state of competence to use linux"

10 thousand people with 100 thousand ideas, how to use this stuffs, how to operate these and that, all kinds of variants, different versions accept different parameters and so on,

basically, no standard way of doing things, submitting issues and etc, but this is probably what to expect when collaboration without or lack of central command,

idk if all the basic tools in linux are collaborated in design and function? i guess no, they are each to their own style,


revolution wrote:
as the consumers, should refuse to buy such things if we can't get all the information.


"all" information sounds nearly impossible, Wink

i dont think we got power to choose, basically we just find whatever that is acceptable and nearest to our own preferences,

the good thing is, coming revolution will revolutionize all current practices into something better and just,
Post 09 Oct 2017, 16:18
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