Linux hardware advice: What to buy?

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revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

I know a lot of people here have experience with Linux. I'm a complete noob, I've never yet been able to run it successfully. I've tried to install it a few times, and I've tried various live versions also. But never have I had everything working.

I've researched a few options for Linux dedicated setups from places like System76, Puri.sm and ZaReason etc., but I'm not impressed with any of them. From what I can gather they are really just normal systems with whatever drivers and things needed to get it running Linux and sold at a large mark-up.

My workplace has made it clear that any OS other than Windows is not going to happen until our customers require it. So anything I buy will have to be a personal purchase. Which means a tight budget and very little time to allow for configuration and twiddling (actually this is the scariest part for me, is the time required to get things working correctly, I just don't have endless hours available to try 523 different versions of Linux and/or to solve 972 error messages).

So does anyone have a recommendation for what system (or brand, or whatever) to buy that is the easiest for installing Linux? Everything must work, I don't want incompatibilities and things only half working.

I have a few non-negotiable criteria: removable battery with standard cell sizes (18650 cells are probably the best here), high resolution screen (2k or higher), lightweight (no more than 1.6kg), spinning HDD (no tiny SSDs). "sufficient" RAM (at least 4GB).

I'm not a speed freak so I don't really care about the CPU. And I have absolutely no use for a GPU so if one is included I won't care, and it would probably just get disabled.

There are plenty of currently available systems around that meet the above criteria but they all come with Windows installed (of course). So which of those systems have all the necessary drivers available, and can run Linux, and have it all working properly? Is there really nothing that can do it?

28 May 2017, 03:10

sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8576
Location: ˛　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455

sleepsleep

finally, a great step towards humanity, =)

not sure about your budget, but best bet would be, exact model like those kernel developers use,

and if you use porteus linux, you don't have to buy a "linux" laptop, you just need a pendrive, and use your "windows" laptop, boot usb, uefi if required, and you got linux that run from memory, yes, you could plug away the pendrive after linux copy those files completely into memory,

imo, high screen resolution might be problem here, because cheap laptop usually came in 1366 x 768,

Aspire E - Model Name: E5-575-33BM $349.99
https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/NX.GG5AA.005

IdeaPad 510S (14") $549
http://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/ideapad-500-series/Lenovo-IdeaPad-510S-14ISK/p/88IP50S0711

Inspiron 13 5000 2-in-1 $529
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/inspiron-13-5368-2-in-1-laptop

idk if all above laptops will run flawlessly with linux, (because it depends also on what distro you intend to use)

you might need to enable javascript to view above manufacturers' website,

you could also go to amazon, sort traditional laptop by price, set dsiplay resolution to 1920 x 1080,

wifi realtek, atheros, ralink are preferred, Laughing

more offer here, http://www.gearbest.com/laptops-c_11964/

Jumper EZBOOK 3 Notebook Embarassed

28 May 2017, 06:26

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

sleepsleep wrote:

and if you use porteus linux, you don't have to buy a "linux" laptop, you just need a pendrive, and use your "windows" laptop, boot usb, uefi if required, and you got linux that run from memory, yes, you could plug away the pendrive after linux copy those files completely into memory,

Well that's my problem. None of the live versions work with my current hardware.

sleepsleep wrote:

idk if all above laptops will run flawlessly with linux,

Well that's my problem. I'm not going to spend money if I don't know the compatibility.

sleepsleep wrote:

(because it depends also on what distro you intend to use)

Well that's my problem. I don't know what to run or what works.

sleepsleep wrote:

you could also go to amazon, sort traditional laptop by price, set dsiplay resolution to 1920 x 1080,

Finding laptops for sale isn't the problem. I don't know which ones will work without problems.

28 May 2017, 11:17

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

Or will I just be forced to pay the large marked up prices to get a properly working version of "free" Linux? Crying or Very sad

28 May 2017, 14:02

sleepsleep

revolution wrote:

Well that's my problem. None of the live versions work with my current hardware.

what is your current hardware?

revolution wrote:

Well that's my problem. I'm not going to spend money if I don't know the compatibility.

you probably need to join some linux group,

revolution wrote:

Well that's my problem. I don't know what to run or what works.

i run porteus for years now, using 3.2 now, eventually my goal is to build my own distro, or i might go with bsd (free/open/net)

idk your expectation about learning / using linux, i am very sure, every distro will give you some sort of issues / problems, and solving them equal part of learning process,

28 May 2017, 16:17

sleepsleep

revolution wrote:

Or will I just be forced to pay the large marked up prices to get a properly working version of "free" Linux?

i tried porteus linux on most of the laptop / desktop i repair, i dare to say, 95% of those could boot without any issues,

if properly working equal
- working ethernet,
- working wireless,
- working video,

then 95% laptops available on market should be no issue,

28 May 2017, 16:20

rugxulo

Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)

rugxulo

revolution wrote:

I know a lot of people here have experience with Linux.

Hey, 300+ active Linux distributions can't all be wrong. Laughing

revolution wrote:

Or will I just be forced to pay the large marked up prices to get a properly working version of "free" Linux?

Um, half-serious, the "Free" means "freedom", not necessarily zero cost. So yeah, paying somebody for support (Red Hat?) might make sense if your needs are that dire.

revolution wrote:

My workplace has made it clear that any OS other than Windows is not going to happen until our customers require it. So anything I buy will have to be a personal purchase.

I don't understand the urgency if you're just going to be forced to use Windows anyways. Everyone else does, so it's a safe bet. The world would practically end if all (modern) Windows stopped working. It's that crucial to many peoples' work. So I wouldn't worry too much. However, that doesn't mean everything is perfect for every use case, but neither is Linux (obviously).

Linux is great and does a lot, but even they can't do literally everything. Try and see, but it's not realistic to get your hopes up insanely high. But most things do work (after many years of effort)!

You might have best luck, as mentioned, by installing a common distro to a "pendrive" and live booting that on any potential purchase hardware as a test. If it works (in obviously simple scenarios, e.g. networking), then you're probably okay.

I'm no guru, by far, but here's a few simple links:

DistroWatch: Top Ten Distributions
Dell: Ubuntu-based Developer and Engineering systems
FSF: Hardware Devices that Support GNU/Linux

28 May 2017, 18:33

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

rugxulo wrote:

I don't understand the urgency ...

I never said it was urgent.

rugxulo wrote:

... but it's not realistic to get your hopes up insanely high.

I don't think I was expressing enormous amounts of hope. Indeed quite the opposite I was sad that I have to pay more in both money and time to get a working Linux system.

rugxulo wrote:

But most things do work (after many years of effort)!

If I had infinite amounts of spare time then perhaps I wouldn't care about the required effort, but back in the real world ...

rugxulo wrote:

You might have best luck, as mentioned, by installing a common distro to a "pendrive" and live booting that on any potential purchase hardware as a test. If it works (in obviously simple scenarios, e.g. networking), then you're probably okay.

I'm not so sure all the shops would be more than happy for random people to plug in random flash disks into their display models. And besides even if I could there wouldn't be any way to tell if everything is working correctly.

What I'm really looking for is something that "just works". Buy a system, install Linux and we're done. Is that possible? If so, then what? Currently my options are the more expensive pre-installed systems. Yes, I could do that but they are small companies and support is not going to be exactly wonderful. So I am trying to explore alternative options at the moment. It is not urgent, I can wait. But in the long term I want to do this eventually to get away from the corporate spying and monitoring that comes with Windows.

My current system can't run Linux correctly from any live distro I've tried. I always get a lower display resolution that is in a distorted aspect ratio, the trackpad is extraordinarily sensitive and impossible to get accurate positioning, and the fan is stuck at one speed. I've given up trying new distros now, it was just a waste of my time.

28 May 2017, 19:48

sleepsleep

sleepsleep wrote:

Aspire E - Model Name: E5-575-33BM $349.99
https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/NX.GG5AA.005

get this then,

https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/5kbh9z/acer_aspire_e_15_how_is_the_linux_support/

https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/5c1b4p/is_the_acer_aspire_e15_e557533bm_compatible_with/dg4lulg/

http://veino.com/blog/?p=1303

http://www.laptopforprogramming.com/best-cheap-laptop-for-linux/

please update laptop bios, use recent kernel version,

29 May 2017, 00:15

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

sleepsleep: Those laptops are too heavy. My non-negotiable criterion for weight is 1.6kg max (see the first post). This pretty much excludes all 15 inch systems. I have to carry this thing all over the planet, it can't be too heavy or too flimsy.

29 May 2017, 01:10

TmX

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 820
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

TmX

revolution wrote:

My current system can't run Linux correctly from any live distro I've tried. I always get a lower display resolution that is in a distorted aspect ratio, the trackpad is extraordinarily sensitive and impossible to get accurate positioning, and the fan is stuck at one speed. I've given up trying new distros now, it was just a waste of my time.

Have you tried submitting bug report either to the distro developers, or Linux kernel developers themselves?
Without knowing what your system is, it's like a blind guess...

29 May 2017, 02:04

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

revolution wrote:

I have a few non-negotiable criteria: removable battery with standard cell sizes (18650 cells are probably the best here), high resolution screen (2k or higher), lightweight (no more than 1.6kg), spinning HDD (no tiny SSDs). "sufficient" RAM (at least 4GB).

...

This pretty much excludes all 15 inch systems.

Laptops with removable batteries are bound to be cumbersome -- forget about lightweight. The need for a spinning HDD, which is slow, big, and heavy by today's standard, only worsens the situation.

Maybe you should just stick to your notebook bought in 2003 -- it still works, I believe.

Wink

29 May 2017, 02:27

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

Like I mentioned in the first post, systems that meet my hardware criteria are plentiful and easy to find (but they come with Windows of course). The hard part, and the part I want to solve, is finding a combination of the hardware and Linux software that work with each other.

29 May 2017, 03:41

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

YONG wrote:

Maybe you should just stick to your notebook bought in 2003 -- it still works, I believe.

Yeah, it still works ... with Windows. But Linux won't work with it.

29 May 2017, 03:43

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

TmX wrote:

Have you tried submitting bug report either to the distro developers, or Linux kernel developers themselves?

Yes I have. I got no response from anyone. Apparently I am not part of the inner circle and therefore not worthy of a reply, or something like that.

29 May 2017, 03:45

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

revolution wrote:

The hard part, and the part I want to solve, is finding a combination of the hardware and Linux software that work with each other.

If you are willing to let go of your fixations (removable battery & spinning HDD), your best bet is a combination of a Chromebook and a Linux distro (like GalliumOS). You can always use an external HDD for data storage and a USB-C dongle for accessories; the total weight may still meet your requirement.

Wink

29 May 2017, 04:24

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16942
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

YONG wrote:

If you are willing to let go of your fixations (removable battery & spinning HDD) ...

No, sorry, non-negotiable. I want something that will last, not a throwaway toy with the SSD and battery failing after a year or so of hard work. Plus all those extra bit and bobs are too much trouble to be handling through airport security and trying to juggle everything for working within an economy seat.

29 May 2017, 04:29

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

revolution wrote:

No, sorry, non-negotiable.

Then, I am afraid that your dream laptop exists only on your website.

revolution wrote:

I want something that will last, not a throwaway toy with the SSD and battery failing after a year or so ...

I have been using my entry-level Chromebook for over a year. Its SSD and battery are still rocking. I am extremely satisfied by its overall performance.

Wink

29 May 2017, 05:35

kerr

Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Posts: 150

kerr

I like Debian and recommend you to use it. I feel good about this system

29 May 2017, 06:12

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

kerr wrote:

I like Debian and recommend you to use it. I feel good about this system

Please also recommend the laptop/hardware that revolution should pick. In particular, the laptop/hardware should meet all of the following requirements:

... a few non-negotiable criteria: removable battery with standard cell sizes (18650 cells are probably the best here), high resolution screen (2k or higher), lightweight (no more than 1.6kg), spinning HDD (no tiny SSDs). "sufficient" RAM (at least 4GB).

Yeah, he/she is quite picky.

Wink

29 May 2017, 06:42

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