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flat assembler > Heap > AI! AlphaGo, DeepMind, IOT, new frontier,

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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 901


YONG wrote:
Time is just a measure of duration.

Strictly speaking, certain views (or theories? idk) of the Universe have that time is strictly a measure of events. More specifically, the change those events bring.

So he could be right there is no such thing as time as a dimension or axis or whatever, for the wrong reasons (as I'm sure he has no idea what I'm talking about Smile).

For example, a photon experiences no time, because it experiences no change. As far as a photon is aware, it "instantly" reaches its destination (whichever that is, at the end of the Universe). When a photon gets absorbed, it probably just keeps bouncing within the quarks or whatever other particles. It doesn't even know that.

But! You ask, the speed of light is finite and well known. That's right, so what is the "speed" (which implies flowing time) in a world without time? It is simply an illusion created by our minds to process changing events.

Now I don't mean that it is fake at all. Optical illusions are not fake either because they exist. "Events" do exist, but time does not as we know it. There is no "flow" of time and there's no axis of time, it's just events.

What we see with that illusion are events. More specifically, we see change and measure change and call it time. The Universe probably already has "computed" every event in the future as soon as it was born, just as it "computed" all space in all axis. Just because we only experience a part of the Universe doesn't mean the rest does not exist. Same with "events". Just because we don't experience what we call "future events" does not mean they don't exist already. A "God" or creature outside the Universe (e.g. if it's a computer simulation) could easily just "pan" the view towards another space or future event.

Why does light have a constant speed no matter how fast you go? Again, because it's a measure of changing events. The reason you perceive time is a function of your brain having changing events itself (atoms, molecules, neurons, etc). The speed of light defines the events itself. If the speed of light was infinite, everything would happen instantly! More accurately would be to say that the speed of light is DUE to causality.

Let's measure events in the brain as a function of the speed of light -- our other reference for changing events. (btw not just the brain, all of your body is same principle ofc).

So, someone who is stationary relative to someone else, say Alice is on Earth, Bob is in space... Alice will measure the same speed of light as Bob. But Bob is clearly moving, is he not?

Remember when I said that photons experience no time? Think about this. Events in the brain move at the speed of light: they bounce around often, within quarks and whatever, but ultimately it's this that defines Bob's brain activity (and "movement"). Bob's brain is now "moving". His entire brain is "moving".

Thus it takes it longer for Bob to process stuff (if Alice can see his brain from far away), because he is "moving" relative to Alice, but events change at the same rate (speed of light). Now, from Bob's perspective, he doesn't think he is processing slower. Slower processing in his brain defines what he finds "normal". In fact, he sees Alice process slower, because she is moving relative to him instead.

That's a bit hard to explain, I guess I fail at it... think of programming and having different threads performing different calculations. You have to "sync" them to be able to communicate with each other (i.e. "see") and to know of each others' existence.

Now think of a video game. A video game has events: there is no time in it, it's an artificial construct. Computer enemies within the video game (monsters, NPCs, etc) aren't aware of your frames per second or if the game is lagging (usually, unless told so). If your game is lagging hard, and get 1 frame per second, they won't know this. Even if the entire game feels slow and sluggish, they will "process events" in a order they were made to. In this case, "in game time" doesn't correspond to "real life time" anymore.

Or you can slow down the game time with hacks etc and you see those computer creatures still think it takes "1 second" while in fact it takes 2 seconds outside.

How would they know the difference? All they see is events being processed. For them, time is a measure of events being changed. If the game is slowed by half, then the same events will happen in the same order, just slower (relative to you outside of the game), but for someone INSIDE (i.e. moving in relativity) he will see the SAME events happen, and that's how THEY define time. Same speed of light in both cases for them. Even if the game is slowed to 10%.

It's not TIME that gets slowed down in the game. It's the game's events, but that slowdown is perceived only from a DIFFERENT frame of reference (in this case, yours).


To be honest, the speed of light is not based on light at all. It should be called speed of events, or speed of causality. It's what defines cause and effect that we can measure.


And I just realized this is an AI thread Laughing
Post 21 Feb 2017, 16:39
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Furs wrote:

If the game is slowed by half, then the same events will happen in the same order, just slower (relative to you outside of the game), but for someone INSIDE (i.e. moving in relativity) he will see the SAME events happen, and that's how THEY define time. Same speed of light in both cases for them. Even if the game is slowed to 10%.




Furs wrote:

To be honest, the speed of light is not based on light at all. It should be called speed of events, or speed of causality. It's what defines cause and effect that we can measure.


these are very in-sighting

i actually found a lot of stuff you this post wrote very in-sighting!
Post 21 Feb 2017, 20:56
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 6961
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i thought of an idea for AI project,

- basically, the AI will create english or etc languages sentences, without grammar error and use classy words, make it reads like from professional author,

- users don't just need to convey basic ideas, simple words, maybe noun, verb, little amount of adjectives,

- AI will produces several sentences, basically guessing the intention of users, let user select what suit their thoughts best, and learn from their selection,

- maybe it will store every english sentences from open source novel or expired copyright novels, let user see how professional used them, and we try to mimic their style,
Post 27 Feb 2017, 17:31
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 901

Check this out: https://libraryofbabel.info/

It already recorded everything you or anyone has said, will ever say, and written Razz

Try search you'll see it always results in the same page number/book/volume etc. So it's not fake. (maybe till you understand how it works)
Post 27 Feb 2017, 20:22
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 6961
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Furs wrote:


not sure what it is, Embarassed

28th February 2017
- i thought about this last night before i went to sleep, i reviewed back what i said before, like ai cause automation like no tomorrow, less jobs require human interaction,...

- ai might cut lots of jobs, but it might spurs the content creation activities, (which can be very exciting, imagine everyone could create a professional film now, without any real actors, just imagination)

- it should be very possible to use descriptive languages to create 3D movies, pictures, animation,

- novel, stories, etc reading consumption i mentioned before,

- even using ai to program almost professional executable,
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/ai-write-code-microsoft

- is like everybody could be the smartest human on earth by having a smart ai assistant, surely, having information don't equal having the capability to understand those information,

- we could have the smartest ai suggest what kind of movement, strategy we could deploy, in another sense, we become slaved by ai, lol Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing the day you don't follow your ai, you will have bad day, lmfao,

- /me kinda see some light in future ai world, which probably will be very exciting! Idea
Post 28 Feb 2017, 15:22
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Robots will outnumber humans in 30 years, Softbank says
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/baig/2017/02/27/the-population-of-super-smart-robots/98471918/

Masayoshi Son Keynote at MWC 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIEfPlvnLFw


Quote:

Son was talking up the concept of “singularity,” that is when the artificial intelligence built into computers, connected Internet of Things objects and the cloud will surpass that of the human brain.


i came here to talk about my belief, 30 years in the future, Cool

please raise your hand if you know singularity, Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
Post 04 Mar 2017, 18:49
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E


sleepsleep wrote:
please raise your hand if you know singularity, Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

Refer to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pIRibivolA

Wink
Post 05 Mar 2017, 03:26
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 6961
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thought of one ai idea,

input : object / human pictures,
ai : process the picture, go through internet, patch the non-available data in that picture, eg, human front only pictures, will have possible back pictures, leg, hair, etc,
output : 3d object that user could use in other project,
Post 11 Mar 2017, 14:45
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E


sleepsleep wrote:
thought of one ai idea,

input : object / human pictures,
ai : process the picture, go through internet, patch the non-available data in that picture, eg, human front only pictures, will have possible back pictures, leg, hair, etc,
output : 3d object that user could use in other project,

Refer to:

How to convert 2D image into 3D in 5 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PromMnjtbd0

Wink
Post 12 Mar 2017, 06:08
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 901

That's not an AI though, that's a human doing that job. Wink (specifically the "3D" conversion, as in, extruding it upwards -- finding its edges/shape is still a 2D thing and you don't need AI for that)
Post 12 Mar 2017, 16:43
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15324
Location: Bigweld Industries

AlphaZero plays Go and beats AlphaGo-Lee 100-0 over 100 matches after just 24 hours of self learning without any human input.

AlphaZero plays chess and beats Stockfish 28-0 over 100 matches after just 24 hours of self learning without any human input.
Post 12 Dec 2017, 13:42
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep wrote:
thought of one ai idea,

input : object / human pictures,
ai : process the picture, go through internet, patch the non-available data in that picture, eg, human front only pictures, will have possible back pictures, leg, hair, etc,
output : 3d object that user could use in other project,



AI-Assisted Fake Porn Is Here and We’re All Fucked
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gydydm/gal-gadot-fake-ai-porn

delivered, Laughing
sooner or later, they will did something, integrate or etc with our physical input,

what is real then? this question goes deep regardless you are in heaven or hell,
Post 12 Dec 2017, 15:58
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15324
Location: Bigweld Industries


revolution wrote:
AlphaZero plays Go and beats AlphaGo-Lee 100-0 over 100 matches after just 24 hours of self learning without any human input.

AlphaZero plays chess and beats Stockfish 28-0 over 100 matches after just 24 hours of self learning without any human input.

These results are unequivocally decisive. There is no doubt, that after just a single day, without any help, AlphaZero became the world's best ever player in both games. And it did it with an unbeaten record. I find this outcome astonishing. Shocked The sudden jump in ability is not trivial, it is enormous. That is not how things normally work. Usually they come in gradual advances, slowly building in strength, slowly winning more and losing less.

Maybe I am the only one that thinks this?

It is like if they were climbing 100 steps to reach the level of perfect player. But these steps not just the ordinary type, they are all very tall, narrow, uneven, loose, slippery, gnarly and twisted with trapdoors, spikes, bear-traps and dangerous creatures everywhere. The humans got to step 53 after 3000 years, panting and huffing, struggling to reach even one more step. The along came AlphaGo and got to step 59 before running out of electrons after many months of watching the humans bypass the major obstacles. Now comes AlphaZero, completely naive and uncaring about anyone else, sprinted past everyone to step 98 and yelled back down and said "Hey guys, the view from up here is awesome, you have to see it. Not sure if I can be bothered to go to the top, I think I'll just go climb that other set of even meaner stairs over there, bye." Smile
Post 13 Dec 2017, 10:12
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sleepsleep



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hope alpha zero could find permanent cures for all kinds of sickness, extend our limited time on earth,

transform us into new reality and knowledge,
Post 13 Dec 2017, 11:29
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15324
Location: Bigweld Industries

Some more details:

https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-future-is-here-alphazero-learns-chess wrote:
Stockfish needs no introduction to ChessBase readers, but it's worth noting that the program [stockfish] was on a computer that was running nearly 900 times faster! Indeed, AlphaZero was calculating roughly 80 thousand positions per second, while Stockfish, running on a PC with 64 threads (likely a 32-core machine) was running at 70 million positions per second. To better understand how big a deficit that is, if another version of Stockfish were to run 900 times slower, this would be equivalent to roughly 8 moves less deep. How is this possible?

Post 13 Dec 2017, 13:53
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 901

Unfortunately (and as much as I'd like to believe otherwise), I don't think that's very impressive in terms of AI, as in real "intelligence" not what people overuse it (sure is in terms of computing power being utilized in a novel way though).

These are highly specialized tasks they are "self-trained" in, with very simple rules. Yes, there's a lot of potential moves to brute-force through, especially in Go, but that's because of size of board, not rules. The rules are basic and there's no need for the AI to think of solutions himself, he just tries (in his own way) to see potential patterns.

Which is a far shot from AIs thinking outside the box to solve problems humans do right now, or self-awareness. Likely won't see that for at least 8 years Sad
Post 13 Dec 2017, 15:28
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 15324
Location: Bigweld Industries

Furs: I agree that this is not anywhere near being mistaken for I ... yet. But the advancement made in this one step is not to be simply brushed off as unimportant IMO. It shows that we can get better results with fewer resources. Or alternatively we can perhaps get orders of magnitude better results with the same resources. These things only ever get better as time progresses.
Post 13 Dec 2017, 17:08
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sleepsleep



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how to translate problems into solvable questions?
Post 15 Dec 2017, 10:02
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 901


sleepsleep wrote:
how to translate problems into solvable questions?

That's what you need intelligence for Wink
Post 15 Dec 2017, 12:53
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