Apple vs FBI re iPhone unlocking

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Walter

Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 136

Walter

Argued with the girlfriend on this one. If it was just about giving government a binary dump of data, I'd say go for it. After all, we're dealing with terrorist activities here. But this one is much more complicated.

www.wired.com

"But if you got a warrant, I guess you're gonna come in."
Grateful Dead - Truckin'

20 Feb 2016, 00:19

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16882
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

The most interesting thing for me, regardless of the eventual outcome, is the exposure of the flaw of the iPhone protection mechanisms. If someone, anyone, can (even in principle) hack your data with a bypass then your data is not as safe as you might have otherwise assumed.

Another public exposure I would like to see is something like lastpass and all the JS it sends to the user for encryption. It would be possible for a TLA to compel lastpass to send modified JS to particular clients to surreptitiously send the users decodable passcode to a server of their choosing. Since the users have no practical way to audit the JS coming in, and most simply trust it to be good, then this would be an efficient way to gather passcodes and most people wouldn't be aware it was even happening.

20 Feb 2016, 07:00

sinsi

Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 688
Location: Adelaide

sinsi

Quote:

What is actually being asked for here is that Apple write custom code that allows the FBI to perform a brute-force attack against the iPhone without triggering the "10 strikes and the phone is wiped" protection mechanism.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/

20 Feb 2016, 07:26

sleepsleep

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8503
Location: ˛　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455

sleepsleep

one locked all his wealth,memories,etc in an unbreakable treasury chest,

come one person demand chest key from him because he needs something inside that chest, or he suspects this person stole something from him and locked it inside the chest, chest contains proof that could clear another convicted person, or stuff that could save thousand lives, or etc

if i lend a handset from you to record a movie,
the recorded mp4 is mine or yours?

who own all the rubbishes on streets?

police could force me to open my door because they suspect there are terrorists in my house, they do it with all my neighbours knew and watch, with me watching and recording,

but police cannot and should not force housing developer to create a hidden door in every house so that they could enter through that door when they want to enter.

i suggest, apple video tape, screen video, each police request to open an iphone and post them in youtube, i think such approach is nearer to available accepted laws.

20 Feb 2016, 21:25

Walter

Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 136

Walter

An open letter from Tim Cook

http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

20 Feb 2016, 23:16

JohnFound

Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria

JohnFound

All this story for me simple show for the public. PR action of Apple. On the reality Apple probably shares the user data with the government, but wants this to be kept in secret.. And the secrecy of such collaboration is good for the government as well, because otherwise the people will start to control their conversations and the content of their phones.

For example, why not to simply desolder the flash chip from the phone and brute force it separately. This way the protection will not work anymore.

21 Feb 2016, 09:31

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16882
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

JohnFound wrote:

For example, why not to simply desolder the flash chip from the phone and brute force it separately. This way the protection will not work anymore.

That won't work because of the key stored in the TrustZone. You would need to extract the key from the TrustZone which is no easy task. Without that key you then have to break the AES crypto which is a much harder task than just trying all the 4 or 6 digit unlock codes. This is why you have to run the code on the actual phone.

21 Feb 2016, 23:20

JohnFound

Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria

JohnFound

Well, I have close to none knowledge of ARM architecture. But I am sure there is something dirty behind the scene of this story. Everything is too melodramatic. Smile

22 Feb 2016, 01:00

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16882
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

JohnFound wrote:

Well, I have close to none knowledge of ARM architecture. But I am sure there is something dirty behind the scene of this story. Everything is too melodramatic.

It is not ARM architecture, it is the SOC that has things like the TrustZone. Later Apple iPhones have something called the secure enclave, which apparently is much more robust than the TrustZone, but I think for this purpose it makes almost no practical difference, the key is going to be well contained within the chip unless some very serious hardware extraction tools are deployed.

22 Feb 2016, 03:20

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

McAfee Founder: I'll decrypt terrorists iPhone for free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWZ8Gi0DVP8

Wow, he said it can be done within three weeks! Rolling Eyes

23 Feb 2016, 07:32

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16882
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

YONG wrote:

McAfee Founder: I'll decrypt terrorists iPhone for free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWZ8Gi0DVP8

Wow, he said it can be done within three weeks!

Do you believe him? I think it is just a publicity stunt. He knows he will never be given the chance so he is quite safe to claim whatever he wants.

23 Feb 2016, 07:36

JohnFound

Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria

JohnFound

revolution wrote:

He knows he will never be given the chance so he is quite safe to claim whatever he wants.

Well, he always can demonstrate the technique with another iPhone and then will get his chance. Smile

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23 Feb 2016, 08:15

revolution
When all else fails, read the source

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16882
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system

revolution

JohnFound wrote:

Well, he always can demonstrate the technique with another iPhone and then will get his chance.

Sure. But it doesn't really prove anything because the provenance of the iPhone cannot be vouched for in the same way. Just get a friend to give McAfee his locked iPhone (and he also tells McAfee the unlock code in secret) and three weeks later, wow, look he cracked it. Rolling Eyes

23 Feb 2016, 08:42

JohnFound

Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria

JohnFound

Well, it can be made trustworthy. One way, or another. In addition, if he want to crack this terrorists phone, as a way to advertise his skills, it is better he can make it, or else will get the opposite effect.

23 Feb 2016, 09:54

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

revolution wrote:

I think it is just a publicity stunt. He knows he will never be given the chance so he is quite safe to claim whatever he wants.

The legal battle between Apple and the FBI may drag on for a long time. So, if he can demonstrate he actually has the skill, the FBI will probably have to give him a try. Time will tell. Wink

23 Feb 2016, 10:11

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

Refer to:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/29/technology/judge-apple-feds/index.html?iid=obnetwork

Quote:

A federal magistrate-judge in New York City has ruled that the U.S. government can't force Apple to hack an iPhone to investigate a drug dealer.

This is not the same case. But it would certainly strengthen Apple's legal argument.

Wink

02 Mar 2016, 01:36

AsmGuru62

Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1398
Location: Toronto, Canada

AsmGuru62

This discussion has an interesting remark:
the possibility of preventing a terrorist attack is not worth of all the possible issues for ordinal iPhone users,
when their phones can get 'unlocked' - too much information is on the smart phones these days.

http://www.therebel.media/fbi_san_bernardino_terrorists_to_bring_apple_and_microsoft

02 Mar 2016, 17:47

YONG

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E

YONG

It is over ... for the time being.

Refer to:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/28/news/companies/fbi-apple-iphone-case-cracked/index.html

Wink

29 Mar 2016, 01:52

Walter

Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 136

Walter

The name of the new operating system:

GovOS Confused

29 Mar 2016, 03:34

ManOfSteel

Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1153

ManOfSteel

What a fetid load of rubbish all this talk about "smartphone this", "encryption that". Blah!!!

There MAY be some proof on their phones/computers that MAY be locked/encrypted. MAYBE.

But it's not like the crime is being committed in cyberland. And it's not like the people committing the crime aren't already known to many security agencies around the world.

These people high up in the idiocy, err, I mean intelligence community really think the whole world is made of complete morons who can't see how incompetent they've become at doing their job, who can't see the whole situation overwhelms them, who can't see they don't even grasp the ABC of that kind of terrorism.

If only we could have an encryption-free world, if only we could eavesdrop on all your kinky conversations, if only we could watch your every movement through the CCTV peephole from the cradle to the grave. Then we would all be saved and enjoy a long life in the land of milk and honey where planes don't get hijacked and come crashing into buildings and where bombs don't go off in train stations.

If only ...

29 Mar 2016, 19:20

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