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flat assembler > Heap > Cloud computing. Who is in control?

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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2468
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Azu wrote:
Did you actually read my post before replying to it? I never said it shouldn't be on servers. All I said was there should be backups of your data on other servers in case the one you're using crashes.
Right, you're overlooking the fact that it's not under my control, and no one cares about MY data as much as ME.

Azu wrote:
Anyways this is a non-issue since if the main server for an MMO goes down there's nothing left to play on except for illegal private servers anyways, so what would you do even if you did have a "backup"?
I didn't say "main" server Wink

Azu wrote:
Well those are shitty blog services, then.
Yeah, and they're not even massive cloud computing.

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Post 14 Oct 2009, 22:26
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Borsuc wrote:
Azu wrote:
Did you actually read my post before replying to it? I never said it shouldn't be on servers. All I said was there should be backups of your data on other servers in case the one you're using crashes.
Right, you're overlooking the fact that it's not under my control, and no one cares about MY data as much as ME.
Non sequitur.

Borsuc wrote:
Azu wrote:
Anyways this is a non-issue since if the main server for an MMO goes down there's nothing left to play on except for illegal private servers anyways, so what would you do even if you did have a "backup"?
I didn't say "main" server Wink
Generally MMOs only have one server, or in some cases (e.g. WoW) multiple servers tied to one main login server.. either way if it goes down, that's kind of the end of the game. Sorry.

Borsuc wrote:
Azu wrote:
Well those are shitty blog services, then.
Yeah, and they're not even massive cloud computing.
Makes sense to me. The ones that are shitty don't become as massive as the ones that are good.

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Post 14 Oct 2009, 22:52
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Remy Vincent



Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 155
Location: France
For me cloud computing is only about a very big project >= 80 millions lines.

It would need 1 hundred ( = 100 ) coders, * 600.000 lines each coder
= 60.000.000 lines
+ 20.000.000 redondant lines = 80 millions lines.
Post 14 Oct 2009, 23:00
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Remy Vincent wrote:
For me cloud computing is only about a very big project >= 80 millions lines.

It would need 1 hundred ( = 100 ) coders, * 600.000 lines each coder
= 60.000.000 lines
+ 20.000.000 redondant lines = 80 millions lines.
Following that logic, nothing could be more cloud computing than Vista, since Vista is the most bloated project ever made!


Heil Vista, the cloud OS! Rolling Eyes

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Post 14 Oct 2009, 23:02
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16574
Location: Earth 2.0 beta
The word “cloud” is supposed to suggest that this vast agglomeration of computing power is amorphous and constantly shifting, but Tromer and colleagues at the University of California, San Diego, were able to load their eavesdropping software onto precisely the same servers that were hosting websites they’d targeted in advance. In part, their approach involved spreading their software across a number of servers, then assailing a targeted website with traffic. By spying on the caches of the servers hosting their software, they could determine which were also trying to keep pace with their fake traffic spikes. Once they’d identified the target site’s servers, they could use cache monitoring to try to steal secrets.
Post 30 Oct 2009, 14:07
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
revolution wrote:
The word “cloud” is supposed to suggest that this vast agglomeration of computing power is amorphous and constantly shifting, but Tromer and colleagues at the University of California, San Diego, were able to load their eavesdropping software onto precisely the same servers that were hosting websites they’d targeted in advance. In part, their approach involved spreading their software across a number of servers, then assailing a targeted website with traffic. By spying on the caches of the servers hosting their software, they could determine which were also trying to keep pace with their fake traffic spikes. Once they’d identified the target site’s servers, they could use cache monitoring to try to steal secrets.
Cache timing attacks are old news.
And there is no way for them to work if you encrypt the data on your end first, or if the server does encryption in dedicated hardware, or uses the AES instruction set.

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Post 30 Oct 2009, 14:36
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
Azu wrote:
Cache timing attacks are old news.
It was posted on October 30 2009.

that's today.

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Post 30 Oct 2009, 16:03
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Borsuc wrote:
Azu wrote:
Cache timing attacks are old news.
It was posted on October 30 2009.

that's today.




E=MC2



OH MY GOD! Mass–energy equivalence was just discovered today, since I posted it today! Shocked
[/sarcasm]




Frickin 2004 lol.

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Post 30 Oct 2009, 16:20
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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I thought you meant it's obsolete.

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Post 30 Oct 2009, 18:26
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Considering it was originally publicized years ago, and has numerous fixes, yes, I think that's what I meant.

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Post 30 Oct 2009, 18:32
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
The article published today says otherwise.

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Post 30 Oct 2009, 19:25
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Crap article.

Mystery solved.

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Post 30 Oct 2009, 19:28
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
Such hostility over semantics when the real debate is on something much more important, such as "who the hell's responsible for one's data?" Here's my stance to break it down...

In favor of cloud computing, it's an extra backup in case of hard drive failure, which can be very, very, very important for open source projects. Even a backup drive would likely be destroyed by fire, and since data here isn't stored in your home where you had the fire, it's good.

Against it, you can't trust anyone with your important data except yourself. These guys are just as likely to loose things than you. In fact, more likely, and even likely to sell it if you subscribe your data to someone whom isn't trustworthy. You can't expect anyone other than yourself (hell, not even your spouse these days) to care more about you than anyone else.

So the real debate comes down to, how important is the privacy level of the data over the ability to recover it? Honestly this must be decided on a case by case basis. For instance, if i had some dirty photos of myself, it'd be a very, very, very bad idea to trust anyone other than yourself to keep them private (even then your own security's questionable unless you really know what you're doing). However, if i had super duper OS project going on and it's nearing completion and MS tries to sue me out of existence, at least my source is out there for someone to continue it for me. At least not all hope for it is lost like if my computer was sold before i even get a word in.

Honestly though, we could talk cache attacks and all of that, but the truth about it is that someone "hacking" the cloud's server is a reflection on the sever admin. One must remember that he or she is getting your money (even if it's only through advertisements) and likely will feel no need to improve security because that would require work when they already have your business. Heck, from the problems i've faced in the past with online services and my data, i wouldn't be overly surprised if some companies allow people to pay to browse the data. You gotta remember that you can't just trust random people just because you give them your service.
Post 31 Oct 2009, 04:38
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16574
Location: Earth 2.0 beta
This link is not about cloud computing but I think is relevant to give you more of an idea about what level of access to your data employees of hosting services really have.

Anonymous Facebook Employee

The larger companies will almost certainly have "curious" employees. And the smaller companies may not even have restricted access. Take your chances wherever you like, but don't expect to be compensated, or even informed, if your data is accessed by others without your consent.
Quote:
Employee: See, the thing is — and I don’t know how much you know about it — it’s all stored in a database on the backend. Literally everything. Your messages are stored in a database, whether deleted or not. So we can just query the database, and easily look at it without every logging into your account. That’s what most people don’t understand.
Post 20 Jan 2010, 09:51
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4186
Location: 2018
Quote:

"curious" employees

like a spy, a double agent, or a DCRG like agent ( the ones who practice real tortures on personns since centuries).

it is a big puzzle.
Post 22 Jan 2010, 16:38
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Don't forget "curious" TSA agents looking through stuff stored on your own computers.




Same problem, and same solution, either way.

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Post 22 Jan 2010, 17:48
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Coddy41



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Ohio, USA
Out of curiosity what would happen if the cloud sever got a virus? A bit to easy to take down wouldn't
you say? Take down just one server and think of all the data lost for a hundred or so people. If the main
server for that company goes down it could take hours to get back up and running. what If within that
time I needed to do something important?

Sure there would be back-up servers, sure there might be a second cluster you could connect to, but
if a virus got on there and spread to all the servers including the back up servers, that could be very bad.

I find this funny, one mag-orly big flaw in this idea.
Post 22 Jan 2010, 18:01
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Out of curiosity what would happen if a Tier 1 network got compromised?

Whoops, there goes a tenth of the Internet, just like that.

I find this funny, one mag-orly big flaw in the idea of the Internet. Let's boycott it. And telephones too, and everything else that is centralized. Like credit cards.

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Post 22 Jan 2010, 18:25
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 16574
Location: Earth 2.0 beta
Azu wrote:
Out of curiosity what would happen if a Tier 1 network got compromised?

Whoops, there goes a tenth of the Internet, just like that.

I find this funny, one mag-orly big flaw in the idea of the Internet. Let's boycott it.
Yep, all the more reason not to rely upon cloud computing. I got my data here with me, so I don't care if a Tier1 (or whatever) goes down I can still work and keep my data safe locally.
Post 22 Jan 2010, 18:28
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Unless the power grid gets a virus. Better go get a generator and tons of gasoline and live in the woods. Laughing


What happens when the white house gets compromised? The U.S. sure is dangerous! Let's boycott it too!

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Post 22 Jan 2010, 18:30
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